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pango	2014-08-27 , 19:25
Posts: 114 \| Thanked: 37 times \| Joined on Aug 2014	#131

Originally Posted by benny1967

I don't need to speculate. I know the root cause:
It's Part #B4876/III (soldered between the frame that surrounds the SIM card and part #F76a). The manufacturer bought it from 2 suppliers. One of those had issues with the material used.

Do you feel better now? Does this help?

If you were Jolla and that were the truth and you'd have posted that in March to that TJC thread, sure, it would have helped. And it is nice to know what will be done to the phone when sent it, so that people can assess the worthiness of it all etc. Besides, it would just seem like good manners to give some explanation.

Originally Posted by benny1967

No, most probably it doesn't because I obviously made it up. But Jolla's internal findings might have been exactly like this and therefore completely useless. (Which directly leads to the part in which Jolla can't make it public because it affects third parties, like their manufacturer and its suppliers.)

Yes, in the lack of explanations from Jolla, the community certainly has had to resort to speculating and making things up many times. Wouldn't it be nice if all that trouble wasn't needed and Jolla was simply transparent?

Originally Posted by benny1967

And I still wonder why we had all this fuzz about the SIM-card-holder, but not about certain other hw-related problems that I noticed were common. Maybe it depends on who's affected and how much of a troll he is.

The fuzz isn't about the SIM card holder itself, though. I brought it up, because I was asked for examples where Jolla was not being transparent. This is one.

Perhaps we can now get an answer from Jolla? Philippe, can you provide the SIM card explanation - did I just miss it, like you suspected?

Originally Posted by benny1967

That's what we always got. Or do you have any proof that any of them were lying to us?

When have I blamed them of lies? Never. I was merely stating that they don't seem to be very open or transparent about things and, when asked, gave a concrete example.

Here is one thing that didn't come true, though:

>@ZogG we will tell you what it is when we know what it is. At the moment as I think I said some time ago it is being investigated and until we know with relatively high certainty what is the problem we can't tell much more.
stezz (Feb 6 '14)<

Originally Posted by benny1967

I may direct your attention to the very thread you pointed to: The one "people" I have in mind didn't respond well at all to status updates.

There is way more than one unhappy person in that thread. And the status updates were pretty much non-updates.

Originally Posted by benny1967

People were angry that their phones didn't work after they'd waited for so long... and that's fully understandable. As I said, I'd have been furious, too. One person chose to make a drama out of it and has been a PITA ever since.

Maybe a reason to have been more transparent, originally, then? Seems like some people staying silent is one big reason why that one guy turned PITA.

pango	2014-08-27 , 19:27
Posts: 114 \| Thanked: 37 times \| Joined on Aug 2014	#132

Originally Posted by w00t

I think this is circling a little too much around flogging a dead (SIM holder shaped) horse at this point.

Philippe asked for an example where Jolla wasn't forthcoming. I was answering him.

fk_lx	2014-08-27 , 19:28
Posts: 80 \| Thanked: 59 times \| Joined on Aug 2012	#133

Originally Posted by w00t

I think this is circling a little too much around flogging a dead (SIM holder shaped) horse at this point.

You seem not to get the point. It's not about whether this issue is old or new, but how Jolla acted, what is seen on TJC. Btw. I would like to remind that I had significant role in showing on FOSDEM what this simcard problem is all about (previously they've thought it's problem of people who don't have original microsims but self-cut). But who cares, now for Jolla I'm enemy no. 1 and source of obsession for some of their fanboys.

	benny1967	2014-08-27 , 19:30
	Posts: 3,790 \| Thanked: 5,718 times \| Joined on Mar 2006 @ Vienna, Austria	#134

Originally Posted by w00t

I think this is circling a little too much around flogging a dead (SIM holder shaped) horse at this point.

Oh come on, be a man!

There are people out there who now dedicate their lives to the SIM-card-holder-non-answer-and-no-transparency-issue. And you give up after just a few hours?

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pango	2014-08-27 , 19:31
Posts: 114 \| Thanked: 37 times \| Joined on Aug 2014	#135

Originally Posted by benny1967

Oh come on, be a man!

There are people out there who now dedicate their lives to the SIM-card-holder-non-answer-and-no-transparency-issue. And you give up after just a few hours?

Could we do this without personal insults?

	Morpog	2014-08-27 , 19:36
	Posts: 956 \| Thanked: 2,628 times \| Joined on Nov 2011	#136

The whole thread is a constant personal insult.

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Thoke	2014-08-27 , 19:38
Posts: 284 \| Thanked: 661 times \| Joined on Aug 2013 @ Finland	#137

Excuse me, I still don't get it. In case of hw-fault, what else do you need to know except that you should send your device to repair if you had that fault? It would serve no purpose whatsoever to "tell the backstory of the issue" when the issue itself can be fixed.

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pango	2014-08-27 , 19:39
Posts: 114 \| Thanked: 37 times \| Joined on Aug 2014	#138

Looking beyond the insults, I still think Jolla could do well by looking in the mirror as an organizational culture and asking could they be more transparent. Could they have handled the troubles they have had with more openness, inclusiveness and would they have reaped benefits from being more open, more transparent in increased community respect and retention.

I think they would have.

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	benny1967	2014-08-27 , 19:41
	Posts: 3,790 \| Thanked: 5,718 times \| Joined on Mar 2006 @ Vienna, Austria	#139

Originally Posted by pango

If you were Jolla and that were the truth and you'd have posted that in March to that TJC thread, sure, it would have helped.

In which way?

Originally Posted by pango

The fuzz isn't about the SIM card holder itself, though. I brought it up, because I was asked for examples where Jolla was not being transparent. This is one.

If it's not about the SIM-card-holder at all, what is it about? Egos?

Originally Posted by pango

When have I blamed them of lies? Never. I was merely stating that they don't seem to be very open or transparent about things and, when asked, gave a concrete example.

You blamed them of not telling the truth. Plus this:

Originally Posted by pango

Here is one thing that didn't come true, though:

@ZogG we will tell you what it is when we know what it is. At the moment as I think I said some time ago it is being investigated and until we know with relatively high certainty what is the problem we can't tell much more.
stezz (Feb 6 '14)

This is exactly the issue with being open and transparent: It turns against you. There's no sane reason to assume Stefano would pretend to be clueless when behind the scenes they already had relevant information. Why would he do so? To make a fool of himself? To give people reason to accuse Jolla of being unable to do their job? Absurd. Still, because this one post in February wasn't what people wanted to hear back then, people create all sorts of myths and accuse him of not telling the truth. You cannot hold him responsible for your fantasies.

Originally Posted by pango

Maybe a reason to have been more transparent, originally, then? Seems like some people staying silent is one big reason why that one guy turned PITA.

So, as you own example shows, it would have been better not to say anything at all than to tell the truth. Haters gonna hate anyway, no matter what you do, but if you remain silent, at least they can't turn your own words against you.

	benny1967	2014-08-27 , 19:45
	Posts: 3,790 \| Thanked: 5,718 times \| Joined on Mar 2006 @ Vienna, Austria	#140

Originally Posted by pango

Could we do this without personal insults?

Actually, I didn't even mean you. I do understand that you took it personal because I used your own words. Sorry, I shouldn't have typed so quickly without thinking. I do not have reason to believe you in any way devoted your whole life to such issues - it's just this thread going wild I guess.

The person I had in mind.... well, I don't feel sorry in his case.