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admiral0 is offline admiral0
2011-02-19 , 10:35
Posts: 279 | Thanked: 293 times | Joined on Oct 2009 @ Italy
#141


Just sayin'....
 

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vi_ is offline vi_
2011-02-19 , 11:13
Posts: 1,680 | Thanked: 3,685 times | Joined on Jan 2011
#142
Originally Posted by zimon View Post
Qt-ecosystem

C++ itself is error prone and usually 1/2 as effective as Java or 1/4 as effective as Python.
Stopped reading, total noob.
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N900: One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.
 
zimon is offline zimon
2011-02-19 , 13:12
Posts: 1,341 | Thanked: 708 times | Joined on Feb 2010
#143
Originally Posted by vi_ View Post
Stopped reading, total noob.
I used the wrong word "effective" there when I meant "productive". It is fixed now.
Productive, as you get more stuff done with lesser time, with lesser code, with lesser bugs and overall.

I do not know if there is statistical studies yet, but the common sense with many who know all the three languages and have programmed with them, are that productivity goes something like C++ is 1/2 productive as Java and Python is 4x productive as C++. You can try to google with "Python productive Java C++"

And we should face the facts now. Threre will NEVER now be as much Qt/C++ developers as there is Java/Android developers. What Meego phone will need at once when it is shipped, is lots of applications, or either it will fail. Having Dalvik VM would be a big plus and immediately Meego would have thousands of developers and tens of thousands applications.

What I also said, that maybe rather than struggling with rather messy QtQuick and C++, Meego OS GUI could be written with QtJambi/Java or QtPython instead to get things more quickly ready and working. It pretty much seems like current methods and tools are not productive enough. The Meego phones should anyway at first be in the high end catogory, so they will have at least 1GB RAM and dual-core CPU. It wouldn't matter to have even two or three VMs running on the system (Python VM, Dalvik VM, Java VM).
Last edited by zimon; 2011-02-19 at 13:14.
 

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vi_ is offline vi_
2011-02-19 , 13:31
Posts: 1,680 | Thanked: 3,685 times | Joined on Jan 2011
#144
Originally Posted by zimon View Post
I used the wrong word "effective" there when I meant "productive". It is fixed now.
Productive, as you get more stuff done with lesser time, with lesser code, with lesser bugs and overall.

I do not know if there is statistical studies yet, but the common sense with many who know all the three languages and have programmed with them, are that productivity goes something like C++ is 1/2 productive as Java and Python is 4x productive as C++. You can try to google with "Python productive Java C++"

And we should face the facts now. Threre will NEVER now be as much Qt/C++ developers as there is Java/Android developers. What Meego phone will need at once when it is shipped, is lots of applications, or either it will fail. Having Dalvik VM would be a big plus and immediately Meego would have thousands of developers and tens of thousands applications.

What I also said, that maybe rather than struggling with rather messy QtQuick and C++, Meego OS GUI could be written with QtJambi/Java or QtPython instead to get things more quickly ready and working. It pretty much seems like current methods and tools are not productive enough. The Meego phones should anyway at first be in the high end catogory, so they will have at least 1GB RAM and dual-core CPU. It wouldn't matter to have even two or three VMs running on the system (Python VM, Dalvik VM, Java VM).
yeah, you are right, why bother doing a long and boring job using the appropriate tools like a total square when you can quickly gypsy some **** together and call it done.

Now excuse me I have to go and put some shelves up with duck-tape.
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N900: One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.
 
mikecomputing is offline mikecomputing
2011-02-19 , 13:33
Posts: 3,464 | Thanked: 5,107 times | Joined on Feb 2010 @ Gothenburg in Sweden
#145
Originally Posted by zimon View Post
I used the wrong word "effective" there when I meant "productive". It is fixed now.
Productive, as you get more stuff done with lesser time, with lesser code, with lesser bugs and overall.

I do not know if there is statistical studies yet, but the common sense with many who know all the three languages and have programmed with them, are that productivity goes something like C++ is 1/2 productive as Java and Python is 4x productive as C++. You can try to google with "Python productive Java C++"

And we should face the facts now. Threre will NEVER now be as much Qt/C++ developers as there is Java/Android developers. What Meego phone will need at once when it is shipped, is lots of applications, or either it will fail. Having Dalvik VM would be a big plus and immediately Meego would have thousands of developers and tens of thousands applications.

What I also said, that maybe rather than struggling with rather messy QtQuick and C++, Meego OS GUI could be written with QtJambi/Java or QtPython instead to get things more quickly ready and working. It pretty much seems like current methods and tools are not productive enough. The Meego phones should anyway at first be in the high end catogory, so they will have at least 1GB RAM and dual-core CPU. It wouldn't matter to have even two or three VMs running on the system (Python VM, Dalvik VM, Java VM).
"rather messy QtQuick." you just FUD ********. Soo why canonical plans too use Qt in nextgen ubuntu? why does KDE use Qt instead of dalvik?

Its like saying every developer must use java or else theyr stupid, how dumb is that? personally i prefer Qt and dislike android and java sdk some others prefer webos some even gtk. so saying dalvik would save meego lis just full of garbage!

My n900 still is better than maany android phones out even if they have 100000 more apps. still searchinf for a replacements that says all! dalvik is not the solusion for everything.
Last edited by mikecomputing; 2011-02-19 at 13:38.
 
zimon is offline zimon
2011-02-19 , 13:43
Posts: 1,341 | Thanked: 708 times | Joined on Feb 2010
#146
Originally Posted by mikecomputing View Post
"rather messy QtQuick." you just FUD ********. Its like saying every developer must use java or else thedyr stupid, how dumb is that? !
.
No. One of course could still use QtQuick with Qt/C++ in Meego. But the fact is there won't be as much Qt/C++ developers ever now as there already is Java/Android-developers. To make use of Qt in Meego as much as possible, QtJambi and QtPython could be a productive way. Many Android developers would even change from Android/Java to QtJambi/Java.

QtQuick is a mess, IMHO. Having a new syntax QML and mixing it with the another C++ syntax, which itself is known to be messy. That is why Java-fathers took off the syntax-sugars and polymorphism following the KISS principle.

Much of the GNOME GUI-tools (for example in Fedora) are done with Python, and it has been a huge advantage to get things done and ready quickly. VMs will only get faster when they develop further.
 
abill_uk is offline abill_uk
2011-02-19 , 14:27
Banned | Posts: 3,412 | Thanked: 1,043 times | Joined on Feb 2010
#147
What is Dalvik doing that this community cannot !!!.
 
tswindell is offline tswindell
2011-02-19 , 14:32
Posts: 724 | Thanked: 1,255 times | Joined on Nov 2007 @ Cambridge, UK
#148
Originally Posted by abill_uk View Post
What is Dalvik doing that this community cannot !!!.
Being successful?
 

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abill_uk is offline abill_uk
2011-02-19 , 14:33
Banned | Posts: 3,412 | Thanked: 1,043 times | Joined on Feb 2010
#149
Obviously !!!
 
zimon is offline zimon
2011-02-19 , 14:35
Posts: 1,341 | Thanked: 708 times | Joined on Feb 2010
#150
Originally Posted by abill_uk View Post
What is Dalvik doing that this community cannot !!!.
A good question.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_Market
On 17 March 2009, there were about 2,300 applications available for download from the Android Market, according to T-Mobile chief technical officer Cole Brodman.[3]

By December 2009, there were over 20,000 applications available for download in the Android Market.[4]

By August 2010, there were over 80,000[5] applications available for download in the Android Market, with over 1 billion application downloads.[6][7] Recent months (in 2010) have shown an ever increasing growth rate, recently (in May 2010) surpassing 10,000 additional applications per month.[8]
In my opinion one of the reasons is that they like to use Java and it is highly productive programming language and it has good development tools.
Last edited by zimon; 2011-02-19 at 14:40. Reason: typos
 
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