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2012-06-22
, 08:58
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Posts: 1,389 |
Thanked: 1,857 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
@ Israel
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#142
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You see, i don't think i need to check on every move or council and every decision of community and contest and everything, otherwise if i participate in every decision, i would be 6th councillor,*sarcars_mode* than were is my device?.
And i think it's still not too late. And few kept saying that council have to get it just coz they are council. I don't think so, they might get just coz what they did before, but it doesn't related one to each other. First of all they are new selected right? And it says here that it for past deeds. And you say that if you have chosen than you think they deserve. I don't think that everyone here is into politics, and a lot didn't vote. As well i'm not sure that we are on same page, as i'll tell again:
Council is about heave responsibility and hard work, but it still might be done differently and may be token for power. From rich experience i know that a lot of capable and talented people with knowledge to lead simply do not want to take responsibility, as actually they do understand what it does mean to be a leader, and that it's not fun, it's as well sacrifices.and hard working.
I'm not a leader in any means, but i had few chances to be in responsibility for others, or being shift manager or commander in army(few times i was in officer responsibility) and moderator and administrator on channels/forums once. But i never wanted it and always tried to avoid, as i hate to be responsible for others, i like to do my job the best i can on my side, but not to be nanny for others, but when i was chosen i did what was needed from me. So to summer up — i don't think it's a privilege, it's just the prove that maybe council members are not taking that right way. As i for example wouldn't be able to just even tell that i'm better than other contributor in community (the one who actually do it) and they did. All this i can't vote for myself do not prove anything.I don't think they as well fudge the votes and i think they put hard work in them, but still what led them were emotions and in our situation they wanted as well to get a device too, and here comes the point when person can't judge and participate at the same time. As after all we all human and even people who do not deserve or deserve less tried. So the question is what was a motivation here....
And i think it's still not too late. And few kept saying that council have to get it just coz they are council. I don't think so, they might get just coz what they did before, but it doesn't related one to each other. First of all they are new selected right? And it says here that it for past deeds. And you say that if you have chosen than you think they deserve. I don't think that everyone here is into politics, and a lot didn't vote. As well i'm not sure that we are on same page, as i'll tell again:
Council is about heave responsibility and hard work, but it still might be done differently and may be token for power. From rich experience i know that a lot of capable and talented people with knowledge to lead simply do not want to take responsibility, as actually they do understand what it does mean to be a leader, and that it's not fun, it's as well sacrifices.and hard working.
I'm not a leader in any means, but i had few chances to be in responsibility for others, or being shift manager or commander in army(few times i was in officer responsibility) and moderator and administrator on channels/forums once. But i never wanted it and always tried to avoid, as i hate to be responsible for others, i like to do my job the best i can on my side, but not to be nanny for others, but when i was chosen i did what was needed from me. So to summer up — i don't think it's a privilege, it's just the prove that maybe council members are not taking that right way. As i for example wouldn't be able to just even tell that i'm better than other contributor in community (the one who actually do it) and they did. All this i can't vote for myself do not prove anything.I don't think they as well fudge the votes and i think they put hard work in them, but still what led them were emotions and in our situation they wanted as well to get a device too, and here comes the point when person can't judge and participate at the same time. As after all we all human and even people who do not deserve or deserve less tried. So the question is what was a motivation here....
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2012-06-22
, 09:20
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Posts: 456 |
Thanked: 1,580 times |
Joined on Dec 2009
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#144
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Originally Posted by ibrakalifa
Ah, well, I primarily blame an annoying, little fellow named "Aegis" for this.
now i know why harmattan so slow to develop rather than fremantle,
Edit: But that's totally off topic here.
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2012-06-22
, 09:22
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Posts: 1,161 |
Thanked: 1,707 times |
Joined on Jan 2010
@ Denmark
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#145
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Originally Posted by lma
That's just a leading question and not a valid argument.
Wow...
To the Harmattan users getting helical underwear syndrome over the awards, consider this: do you want to be represented by a council that has no Harmattan devices and therefore no interest in them or their software?
Should they also receive an 770, 800, 810 and a N900 to take any interest in those platforms?
So you're saying that they only give harmattan any atention and interest if provided with an harmattan device. In that case they shouldn't have been elected to council.
I hope they where elected cause they care for the whole community and not only for the ones they got devices for.
I don't see the point in your statement.
Regards Dousan...
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2012-06-22
, 09:28
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Posts: 1,086 |
Thanked: 2,964 times |
Joined on Jan 2010
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#146
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It's not an easy task to whittle down a large list of worthy applicants into the final 25, so thanks to the council for taking the time to research into each application and choosing the winners they feel best deserves the community awards.
It's natural that some will be disappointed. Honestly, I've never heard of half the list either and I seriously thought one of the winners was a forum troll - I was really surprised to see his name on the list
So maybe I need to take a wider look at the community 
Although everyones self submission email is linked to in the wiki, it's a little unwieldy to go through them all. If there's one thing i would change with the process, I think it would help if the final list of winners had a small sentence beside each member with a summary from the council of why they were chosen. I think this would help everyone as it gives a reason for council's decision but also it highlights that person's good deeds better so they can get some extra credit
It doesn't need to be big, for example,
could be embellished with
It's just a thought. Congrats again to all the winners
Last edited by kojacker; 2012-06-22 at 09:30.
It's natural that some will be disappointed. Honestly, I've never heard of half the list either and I seriously thought one of the winners was a forum troll - I was really surprised to see his name on the list
So maybe I need to take a wider look at the community Although everyones self submission email is linked to in the wiki, it's a little unwieldy to go through them all. If there's one thing i would change with the process, I think it would help if the final list of winners had a small sentence beside each member with a summary from the council of why they were chosen. I think this would help everyone as it gives a reason for council's decision but also it highlights that person's good deeds better so they can get some extra credit
It doesn't need to be big, for example,
• An Example (username) will receive N9
•An Example (username) will receive N9 as thanks for his great efforts in maintaining the community wiki over many years
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Follow me on my neglected twitter @kojacker
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Last edited by kojacker; 2012-06-22 at 09:30.
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2012-06-22
, 09:54
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Posts: 1,397 |
Thanked: 2,126 times |
Joined on Nov 2009
@ Dublin, Ireland
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#147
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It took a lot of time to go through all this nonsense and bitterness. Time we need for more important stuff.
Arie: all this distinctions you are making about the "Harmattan" community and naming yourself as their representative is pretty sad.
I don't want to enter into this game of FUD and childish arguments.
The fact is that the Community Awards criteria and selection process have been publicly discussed for weeks before the submissions start, both at TMO and mailing list and no one has expressed any concern about it except, precisely, the members of the Council.
Two options were proposed, first one that applying members of the Council wouldn't get any involvement in CA decision, leaving Woody as only judge (we questioned Quim if he wanted to be part of jury but he declined). Second option was that Councillors wouldn't vote for themselves but will help in organizing and selecting the rest of candidates.
Second option was chosen. I can presume Arie would have protested also on first one saying that only one person deciding was dictatorial.
Regarding the voting process, I can say that at first round only 16 people were selected as winners and that 2 of 4 Councillors applying didn't enter that list. Even more, it was needed to go to final round of voting and agreement to include the fourth candidate into the winners list.
It's absolutely understandable that anyone could prefer any other candidates to some of the selected ones. Precisely, we had different opinions on who deserved the prizes, but at the end, we have reached consensus and this Council is going to speak with one voice, so we won't publish our preferences or personal votes on candidates.
Arie: all this distinctions you are making about the "Harmattan" community and naming yourself as their representative is pretty sad.
I don't want to enter into this game of FUD and childish arguments.
The fact is that the Community Awards criteria and selection process have been publicly discussed for weeks before the submissions start, both at TMO and mailing list and no one has expressed any concern about it except, precisely, the members of the Council.
Two options were proposed, first one that applying members of the Council wouldn't get any involvement in CA decision, leaving Woody as only judge (we questioned Quim if he wanted to be part of jury but he declined). Second option was that Councillors wouldn't vote for themselves but will help in organizing and selecting the rest of candidates.
Second option was chosen. I can presume Arie would have protested also on first one saying that only one person deciding was dictatorial.
Regarding the voting process, I can say that at first round only 16 people were selected as winners and that 2 of 4 Councillors applying didn't enter that list. Even more, it was needed to go to final round of voting and agreement to include the fourth candidate into the winners list.
It's absolutely understandable that anyone could prefer any other candidates to some of the selected ones. Precisely, we had different opinions on who deserved the prizes, but at the end, we have reached consensus and this Council is going to speak with one voice, so we won't publish our preferences or personal votes on candidates.
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2012-06-22
, 09:58
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Posts: 456 |
Thanked: 1,580 times |
Joined on Dec 2009
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#148
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Personally, I have the impression that the whole topic of the community awards was very openly discussed in advance. There was at least the corresponding thread here on tmo and the mailing list in which discussions could have taken place.
I felt very much informed about what was going on and what decisions were made. The information even reached the degree where I was almost a little bit annoyed of all the "spam" caused by the self-nominations and the discussion in the mailinglist.
However, seeing this whole discussion here, choosing the mailinglist was just right as it very well documents publicly what was going on without the possiblity to change/edit posts later on.
With respect to this discussion: imho, all the concerns voiced here should have been brought up in advance. This thread pretty much proves that the people having objections are capable of making themselves heard.
There is no need to follow the council in everthing it does. But as a political mature person who is interested in this community one has to also inform oneself about what's going on. Honestly, the discussion about the community award was nothing that had been discussed behind closed doors. In fact this topic was publicly discussed for quite some time in the corresponding media like tmo or the mailinglist.
As said also in the other post: maybe we all can take this as a lesson to participate in things while they are discussed and if there are objections voice our opinions loudly enough for them being heard.
I felt very much informed about what was going on and what decisions were made. The information even reached the degree where I was almost a little bit annoyed of all the "spam" caused by the self-nominations and the discussion in the mailinglist.
However, seeing this whole discussion here, choosing the mailinglist was just right as it very well documents publicly what was going on without the possiblity to change/edit posts later on.
With respect to this discussion: imho, all the concerns voiced here should have been brought up in advance. This thread pretty much proves that the people having objections are capable of making themselves heard.
There is no need to follow the council in everthing it does. But as a political mature person who is interested in this community one has to also inform oneself about what's going on. Honestly, the discussion about the community award was nothing that had been discussed behind closed doors. In fact this topic was publicly discussed for quite some time in the corresponding media like tmo or the mailinglist.
As said also in the other post: maybe we all can take this as a lesson to participate in things while they are discussed and if there are objections voice our opinions loudly enough for them being heard.
__________________
MeePasswords --- Q To-Do --- QZeeControl
Advanced Clock Plugin --- Binary Clock, Desktop Version --- libswt-hildon
Stultitia Simplex --- To-Do-O --- VU Meter --- Zeecontrol
My homepage with assorted posts about my apps, Qt/QML, etc.: http://ruedigergad.com
Advanced Clock Plugin --- Binary Clock, Desktop Version --- libswt-hildon
Stultitia Simplex --- To-Do-O --- VU Meter --- Zeecontrol
My homepage with assorted posts about my apps, Qt/QML, etc.: http://ruedigergad.com
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2012-06-22
, 10:03
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Posts: 1,389 |
Thanked: 1,857 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
@ Israel
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#149
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Originally Posted by ivgalvez
Nice way to post an answer with no actual answer. I hate politics.
It took a lot of time to go through all this nonsense and bitterness. Time we need for more important stuff.
Arie: all this distinctions you are making about the "Harmattan" community and naming yourself as their representative is pretty sad.
I don't want to enter into this game of FUD and childish arguments.
The fact is that the Community Awards criteria and selection process have been publicly discussed for weeks before the submissions start, both at TMO and mailing list and no one has expressed any concern about it except, precisely, the members of the Council.
Two options were proposed, first one that applying members of the Council wouldn't get any involvement in CA decision, leaving Woody as only judge (we questioned Quim if he wanted to be part of jury but he declined). Second option was that Councillors wouldn't vote for themselves but will help in organizing and selecting the rest of candidates.
Second option was chosen. I can presume Arie would have protested also on first one saying that only one person deciding was dictatorial.
Regarding the voting process, I can say that at first round only 16 people were selected as winners and that 2 of 4 Councillors applying didn't enter that list. Even more, it was needed to go to final round of voting and agreement to include the fourth candidate into the winners list.
It's absolutely understandable that anyone could prefer any other candidates to some of the selected ones. Precisely, we had different opinions on who deserved the prizes, but at the end, we have reached consensus and this Council is going to speak with one voice, so we won't publish our preferences or personal votes on candidates.
So what you are saying that there are people in list that didn't worth winning and were left spots left and only than you put the council members there? oe i misunderstood?
Or it took you several rounds to figure it out how all the councils will get into list? And yes i want to ask council as members, as you see council can't speak as one man, as even here different decisions were made, and i think woody can't answer instead of those who put their names there. And back again, we can't follow all discussions and decision, i simply didn't check if councils in list, coz i didn't even think of that possibility and i did relied on you to make it right, but what can i say — always learn something new.
And yes, you are not real corrupted government, but council for community, and i think it's in your responsibility to answer doubts of members, especially when there are more than few and when topic is hot like that, otherwise what's the point of representing us?
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2012-06-22
, 10:08
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Posts: 1,389 |
Thanked: 1,857 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
@ Israel
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#150
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Originally Posted by Wonko
Can you please show me where it was discussed if council members should participate in award as well, before we just start arguing, as i just tried to say my point of view and you answered and i tried to explain that my point was different from answer i got, but i got the same answer again, so we are going in circles.
Personally, I have the impression that the whole topic of the community awards was very openly discussed in advance. There was at least the corresponding thread here on tmo and the mailing list in which discussions could have taken place.
I felt very much informed about what was going on and what decisions were made. The information even reached the degree where I was almost a little bit annoyed of all the "spam" caused by the self-nominations and the discussion in the mailinglist.
However, seeing this whole discussion here, choosing the mailinglist was just right as it very well documents publicly what was going on without the possiblity to change/edit posts later on.
With respect to this discussion: imho, all the concerns voiced here should have been brought up in advance. This thread pretty much proves that the people having objections are capable of making themselves heard.
There is no need to follow the council in everthing it does. But as a political mature person who is interested in this community one has to also inform oneself about what's going on. Honestly, the discussion about the community award was nothing that had been discussed behind closed doors. In fact this topic was publicly discussed for quite some time in the corresponding media like tmo or the mailinglist.
As said also in the other post: maybe we all can take this as a lesson to participate in things while they are discussed and if there are objections voice our opinions loudly enough for them being heard.
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I am using both N9 and N900. I am so thankful about some developments, hacks, apps... that have been done since I first had my (beloved) N900.
Still this sort of reward sounds (in my mind) a bit like: this is our last good bye. I am not exactly sure why, but probably because of all discussion around 'maemo being orphaned', I feel like this is the part of closing the maemo story - at least with closed relationship with Nokia. So this is why the CA is probably so much linked to 'past': a nostalgic CA
But past is 'subjective' as already pointed out: apparently past have been defined as from N770. I have no problem with that but this could have been clarified earlier. I for one have history starting from N900
I consider this definition as fine except if their membership to this community have been rewarded already (not sure about this but N900 were given to developers before the official launch, no? Maybe other devices - like N770, N800, N810 were granted before as well)!?
And as much fremantle had pushed down previous maemo edition, harmattan community is not that strong compared to fremantle community (inside the maemo bigger community). This is creating a special situation in maemo.org... which arise in this discussion also.
And I completly understand why people react strangely when you realise that those rewards will be in some cases considered like a dumbphone, an additional phone quickly getting dust, a way to get money from selling it, a present to a girlfriend or to a family... while Harmattan needs so much active additional people, more blood. It sounds like a pity not to provide them to people not having money to buy it but ready to do so many things with it...
But that's life probably...
ideally people developing (or contributing) for N900 would get a N900 and those wiling a N9(50) would get one. But not possible... So probably the situation is as best as it could have been.
Regarding conflict of interests, this is indeed a problem. 4 people on 5 in the council getting a reward. They (probably) deserve it (always difficult to know the implication of someone when you are not yourself in the council or being aware of all the stuff around). There is clearly a strong relationship (statistically significant
Solution: euh no solution. Except if they agree to compete their "CV" with others that did not receive one?! Another approach would be to know who voted for who (only for candidates from the council). Indeed, this is very easy to get to a situation where: "I vote for you if you vote for me" even if not explicit.
Or we close the story and we switch to something else! This year will probably be quite intense, if servers are not funded by Nokia anymore and we would need a solid council to help facilitate the transition. No?