Active Topics
-
[ANNOUNCE] MeeShop - new app store (10)
to Applications by aspergerguy - 1 day, 9 hrs ago -
HTTP-401 Sfos-Builder when using /etc/ssu credentials (0)
to SailfishOS by insanelysexy - 2 days, 15 hrs ago -
Longtime users: What device(s) are you using today? (54)
to General by ryu1 - 4 days, 20 hrs ago - more...
|
2014-08-27
, 19:56
|
|
Posts: 114 |
Thanked: 37 times |
Joined on Aug 2014
|
#142
|
Originally Posted by benny1967
It would have helped those users understand what they were sending their phones in for (do I send it in or keep using my in-house fix or whatnot). It would have helped those waiting for the solution to have some inklings of the process. It would have been a nice gesture, as opposed to not explaining is now just weird, which would have been good PR. Besides, it would have been the right thing to do.
In which way?
Originally Posted by benny1967
It is about more transparency helping Jolla's public image and their community.
If it's not about the SIM-card-holder at all, what is it about? Egos?
Originally Posted by benny1967
Did I? Certainly that has not been my intent. I do think Jolla refuses to tell reasons in many cases, but I don't think they lie.
You blamed them of not telling the truth. Plus this:
Originally Posted by benny1967
No, he could have offered an explanation and that would have been that. He did not offer that explanation and hence I pointed it out. For whatever reason, the explanation was silenced. But that's beside the point anyway. My point is far more general than about any SIM card holders. I think Jolla has chosen a quite secretive company culture where unpleasant issues are rather kept silent than discussed at all openly, and I think they would benefit from a change of that policy/culture. It really is, my intent, a suggestion that I believe would be helpful for them.
This is exactly the issue with being open and transparent: It turns against you. There's no sane reason to assume Stefano would pretend to be clueless when behind the scenes they already had relevant information. Why would he do so? To make a fool of himself? To give people reason to accuse Jolla of being unable to do their job? Absurd. Still, because this one post in February wasn't what people wanted to hear back then, people create all sorts of myths and accuse him of not telling the truth. You cannot hold him responsible for your fantasies.
Originally Posted by benny1967
No, it doesn't show that. Saying nothing to all those waiting people would not have been good either. Why not just be honest and tell them a real reason? You don't have to spill all beans to do it nicely, but to not give them anything as a reason, that stings especially.
So, as you own example shows, it would have been better not to say anything at all than to tell the truth. Haters gonna hate anyway, no matter what you do, but if you remain silent, at least they can't turn your own words against you.
That's not transparency, that's for sure, but more importantly I don't think it is very good for Jolla's image or their progress either.
 |
|
2014-08-27
, 19:56
|
|
Posts: 3,790 |
Thanked: 5,718 times |
Joined on Mar 2006
@ Vienna, Austria
|
#143
|
Originally Posted by pango
Now that's news. I cannot read this from the thread.
Jolla's rep was about to tell the reason, but then for whatever cause they decided not to tell it.
However, if you are able to read that from what Stefano said, we're really in the realm of conspiracy theories.
 |
|
2014-08-27
, 20:01
|
|
Posts: 1,055 |
Thanked: 4,107 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
@ Norway
|
#144
|
Originally Posted by pango
Something which is often neglected in discussions on this topic, particularly like this one, is that such a communication isn't just made to Jolla's happy and loyal customers who are technically savvy.
An update in February: "SIM card holder investigation progressing. We are currently suspecting the left flange as the problem. We may also need a firmware update. Will keep you posted."
It's also made to the rest of the world (the media, those who don't understand technology, etc) who might make a mountain out of a molehill, and turn something like - let's say - "a few devices have a hardware issue which occasionally results in SIM disconnection" to "Jolla acknowledges fatal flaw in hardware design", which sends potential customers into panic.
The amount of miscommunication that already appears to crop up over the few things that are said does not give me much faith that communicating such issues in exhaustive detail would result in a better situation for anyone on the inside of the company.
I can say that I sort of see your point in that I like knowing the details behind issues (I'm a software geek, go figure), but I've also (repeatedly) seen the trainwreck that comes when even a small misinterpretation happens or the situation later changes plans etc.
__________________
i'm a Qt expert and former Jolla sailor (forever sailing, in spirit).
if you like, read more about me.
if you find me entertaining, or useful, thank me. if you don't, then tell me why.
i'm a Qt expert and former Jolla sailor (forever sailing, in spirit).
if you like, read more about me.
if you find me entertaining, or useful, thank me. if you don't, then tell me why.
|
|
2014-08-27
, 20:03
|
|
Posts: 114 |
Thanked: 37 times |
Joined on Aug 2014
|
#145
|
Originally Posted by benny1967
No? Here stezz says they will tell when they know - and then in the last update say they have been able to isolate the root cause, but don't tell what it is, even when asked in the further comments?
Originally Posted by pango View Post
Jolla's rep was about to tell the reason, but then for whatever cause they decided not to tell it.
Now that's news. I cannot read this from the thread.
However, if you are able to read that from what Stefano said, we're really in the realm of conspiracy theories.
https://together.jolla.com/question/...e-lost-easily/
Or are you suggesting stezz never intended to tell what it is?
>@ZogG we will tell you what it is when we know what it is. At the moment as I think I said some time ago it is being investigated and until we know with relatively high certainty what is the problem we can't tell much more.
stezz (Feb 6 '14)<
stezz: >UPDATE (19.3): After investigating this thoroughly we have been able to isolate the root cause.
Should you encounter any SIM related issues, please submit a request to Care and they will help you.<
| The Following User Says Thank You to pango For This Useful Post: | ||
 |
|
2014-08-27
, 20:06
|
|
Posts: 3,404 |
Thanked: 4,474 times |
Joined on Oct 2005
@ Germany
|
#146
|
Originally Posted by pango
If you ever signed an NDA for doing business, you'd know that you cannot simply discuss all issues happily in the public for legal reasons.
II think Jolla has chosen a quite secretive company culture where unpleasant issues are rather kept silent than discussed at all openly, and I think they would benefit from a change of that policy/culture. It really is, my intent, a suggestion that I believe would be helpful for them.
If in doubt, you better say nothing.
I don't know if this is the case here, but I don't mind. There may be reasons, though, and to us users it doesn't matter at all. All that matters is that if you were unlucky to get faulty hardware, you'll get it replaced under warranty.
__________________
Tidings - RSS and Podcast aggregator for Jolla - https://github.com/pycage/tidings
Cargo Dock - file/cloud manager for Jolla - https://github.com/pycage/cargodock
Tidings - RSS and Podcast aggregator for Jolla - https://github.com/pycage/tidings
Cargo Dock - file/cloud manager for Jolla - https://github.com/pycage/cargodock
| The Following User Says Thank You to pycage For This Useful Post: | ||
|
|
2014-08-27
, 20:07
|
|
Posts: 114 |
Thanked: 37 times |
Joined on Aug 2014
|
#147
|
Originally Posted by w00t
Nobody is asking for exhaustive detail. I am offering my opinon on how to improve comms. Now Jolla appears secretive and me and some of us feel it is a bad vibe. I'm sure there would be a common ground where your concerns and mine would meet better than they do now.
The amount of miscommunication that already appears to crop up over the few things that are said does not give me much faith that communicating such issues in exhaustive detail would result in a better situation for anyone on the inside of the company.
I think that TJC thread on the SIM card holder comes out plain weird when at the end no explanation is given.
I wonder how many of you cringed when Apple did something similar with their antenna.
|
|
2014-08-27
, 20:09
|
|
Posts: 1,055 |
Thanked: 4,107 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
@ Norway
|
#148
|
Originally Posted by pango
And your suggestion involved pretty exhaustive detail, and I offered a viewpoint on why that may not be so hot an idea.
Nobody is asking for exhaustive detail. I am offering my opinon on how to improve comms.
__________________
i'm a Qt expert and former Jolla sailor (forever sailing, in spirit).
if you like, read more about me.
if you find me entertaining, or useful, thank me. if you don't, then tell me why.
i'm a Qt expert and former Jolla sailor (forever sailing, in spirit).
if you like, read more about me.
if you find me entertaining, or useful, thank me. if you don't, then tell me why.
| The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to w00t For This Useful Post: | ||
|
|
2014-08-27
, 20:10
|
|
Posts: 114 |
Thanked: 37 times |
Joined on Aug 2014
|
#149
|
Originally Posted by pycage
As I've said before, I can understand how a low-level grunt would feel like that if there is a secretive culture at the company. But many of the Jolla social media figureheads are pretty high up. I'm fairly certain they could make quite different policy if they so chose. Then again, when the leadership are secretive, that culture fast spreads all over the organization in general...
If you ever signed an NDA for doing business, you'd know that you cannot simply discuss all issues happily in the public for legal reasons.
If in doubt, you better say nothing.
I don't know if this is the case here, but I don't mind. There may be reasons, though, and to us users it doesn't matter at all. All that matters is that if you were unlucky to get faulty hardware, you'll get it replaced under warranty.
stezz, for example, is the CTO at Jolla. I have a very, very hard time believing his hands were tied from answering by an NDA. Jolla's management decision, of which he probably was part, sounds far more likely to me?
|
|
2014-08-27
, 20:11
|
|
Posts: 114 |
Thanked: 37 times |
Joined on Aug 2014
|
#150
|
Originally Posted by w00t
I would have settled for them naming the part generally they are about to replace. This is what usually companies do. Even "unlike" companies.
And your suggestion involved pretty exhaustive detail, and I offered a viewpoint on why that may not be so hot an idea.
Well, it is pretty unlike to say nothing at all. I'll give them that.
An update in February: "SIM card holder investigation progressing. We are currently suspecting the left flange as the problem. We may also need a firmware update. Will keep you posted."
An update in March: "OK, investigation complete. If you have issues, we'll update the firmware related to the SIM card sensor. For those whose left flange is faulty, we'll replace it, but it is not necessary for most."
That would have been pretty open and certainly much more useful for the participants of the thread than the non-answers they now got.
Jolla's rep was about to tell the reason, but then for whatever cause they decided not to tell it.
Just read the thread:
https://together.jolla.com/question/...e-lost-easily/
It definitely would have served a purpose to provide information in that thread, in my opinion. Now it looks pretty weird to hide it so deliberately.