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2011-02-20
, 01:29
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Posts: 35 |
Thanked: 19 times |
Joined on Sep 2010
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#1541
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Originally Posted by gerbick
Hence the reason for the edit.
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2011-02-20
, 01:34
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Posts: 963 |
Thanked: 626 times |
Joined on Sep 2009
@ Connecticut, USA
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#1542
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Originally Posted by Wiener
And that is a point that have been pondering myself. How well will the Nokia developer culture be able to transition to a Microsoft ecosystem? I have a feeling that it will not be a very smooth transition at all. Many Nokia developers loath Microsoft. Sure, they are professionals and are technically able to do it, but they are humans with ideals and aspirations. Some, I am sure, only care about their pay check. But many, I suspect, will be quite discontented about their new circumstances. I wonder if CEOs take those things into consideration, or if they think that everyone is as money focused as they are.
.... And first WP7 phones won't be a good one I guess due to lack of experience.
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2011-02-20
, 01:43
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Posts: 248 |
Thanked: 191 times |
Joined on May 2010
@ New Zealand
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#1543
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Originally Posted by Wiener
Sure, but MS are masters at making money out of smoke and mirrors.
You mean before the Microsoft deal. Did the deal change it? Symbian is more legacy, and the future is even more "vapourware".
Mish.
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2011-02-20
, 02:06
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Posts: 248 |
Thanked: 191 times |
Joined on May 2010
@ New Zealand
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#1544
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Originally Posted by ossipena
Having something sexy to sell to the people who buy things, people who just want something that they can use to do all the things that people do with iPhones, iPads and Android devices. It isn't rocket science. If you don't have something sexy for people to buy, something as sexy as what your competitors are having trouble keeping up with demand - then you don't compete, you don't make enough profit, you lose your dominant position in the market, and that is a big problem.
what boat? If you are talking about "apps" -boat, it is bit like titanic in the movies: deemed to sink. Current state of phone os:es is big pile of sh... compared to what it could be with current sensors(gps, accel. etc) and processing power..
Maybe MeeGo would have delivered something in a year or two, despite the fact that Moblin and Maemo didn't, and maybe developers would write and port apps for Symbian and MeeGo that start rolling in in a year or two from now in way that hadn't happened with Maemo (at least, nothing like for Android and iOS). Or maybe they realised they were flogging a dead horse, that it was too late already, and even if it was going to produce anything, it was too late, so sent it to the knackers yard.
I've seen situations where somebody like Elop is brought into a company, and they give it six months to see if things are going anywhere - and when they don't, they have to do something radical to try and rescue the situation. It may be too late, but they have to try and do something. It looks like Maemo/MeeGo produced one n900 type 3G mobile device in the course of four years, one that could only be of any use to systems, hacker or software folks - that's a huge investment for very little return, and I can appreciate why such a luxurious project would be axed.
They are in the business of making phones, not providing toys for techies and geeks to play with, nor bankrolling open source software.
Mish.
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2011-02-20
, 03:36
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Posts: 35 |
Thanked: 19 times |
Joined on Sep 2010
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#1545
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Let's play a game here. In 2010 nokia spent $1 billion on symbian development and $.3billion on meego and QT for a total of $1.3 billion and they sold 100 million symbian devices. Now let's say these were instead Windows Phone devices and their MS deal is in place.
I am only guessing that licensing WP from MS is $20 per handset. Now let's say with this deal nokia is getting a 25% discount so they pay $15 per device. Now how much would they be paying MS in licensing? $1.5 billion. So $200 million more then staying in house. Ahh but the ad revenue they might be getting... Ok now let's do the above for 2011 and assume nokia is going to hit their target of 150 million symbian devices sold( laughable I know since they killed it in consumer eyes ) let's also assume they spend the same for symbian QT and meego development $1.3 billion. In this scenario they would be paying $2.25 billion to MS for licensing, almost 1 billion more then they would have spent keeping development in house. Do you really think MS is going to be cutting nokia a $250 million check every quarter in ad revenue sharing??? I doubt it.
So how does this make sense when you sell more smart phones then any other manufacturer, and symbian just in 2010 finally became the #2 smartphone OS? Oh and they picked the number #5 OS to go with?
I am only guessing that licensing WP from MS is $20 per handset. Now let's say with this deal nokia is getting a 25% discount so they pay $15 per device. Now how much would they be paying MS in licensing? $1.5 billion. So $200 million more then staying in house. Ahh but the ad revenue they might be getting... Ok now let's do the above for 2011 and assume nokia is going to hit their target of 150 million symbian devices sold( laughable I know since they killed it in consumer eyes ) let's also assume they spend the same for symbian QT and meego development $1.3 billion. In this scenario they would be paying $2.25 billion to MS for licensing, almost 1 billion more then they would have spent keeping development in house. Do you really think MS is going to be cutting nokia a $250 million check every quarter in ad revenue sharing??? I doubt it.
So how does this make sense when you sell more smart phones then any other manufacturer, and symbian just in 2010 finally became the #2 smartphone OS? Oh and they picked the number #5 OS to go with?
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2011-02-20
, 03:45
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Posts: 1,746 |
Thanked: 2,100 times |
Joined on Sep 2009
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#1546
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Originally Posted by mishmich
Chances are MeeGo will be done by April. Whether or not Nokia could have delivered anything is something else entirely. I love how people remain totally ignorant of how MeeGo works yet talk like they understand everything about it.
Maybe MeeGo would have delivered something in a year or two
despite the fact that Moblin and Maemo didn't
Or maybe they realised they were flogging a dead horse, that it was too late already, and even if it was going to produce anything, it was too late, so sent it to the knackers yard.
I've seen situations where somebody like Elop is brought into a company, and they give it six months to see if things are going anywhere - and when they don't, they have to do something radical to try and rescue the situation.
It may be too late, but they have to try and do something. It looks like Maemo/MeeGo produced one n900 type 3G mobile device in the course of four years
Wow, Maemo.org has become very anti-Linux and anti-Open Source the past week or so.
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2011-02-20
, 04:01
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Posts: 619 |
Thanked: 691 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
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#1547
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Originally Posted by wmarone
... we have a 100+ page threads and numerous other threads devoted to slamming M$, calling Elop a trojan horse, calls for Eloped to be charged on treason, calls to action to have Elop removed, moans and cries that Nokia have doomed themselves by abandoning FOSS, and cries of "Elopcalypse" ... all in the last week or so since "the annoucement"
Wow, Maemo.org has become very anti-Linux and anti-Open Source the past week or so.
... and you think this place is getting anti FOSS ?
... Speechless...
... I guess if fish talked they would not have a word for "wet"
PS - I think you need to straighten out the mirrors in your residence, cause you definitely have a warped reflection
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2011-02-20
, 04:21
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Posts: 1,746 |
Thanked: 2,100 times |
Joined on Sep 2009
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#1548
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Originally Posted by Frappacino
I don't really care about what the anti-Elop people have to say, since often they don't have rational points. Posts like the one I responded to are rife across this forum, and full of misinformation.
... and you think this place is getting anti FOSS ?
... Speechless...
... I guess if fish talked they would not have a word for "wet"
PS - I think you need to straighten out the mirrors in your residence, cause you definitely have a warped reflection
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2011-02-20
, 04:57
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Posts: 434 |
Thanked: 990 times |
Joined on May 2010
@ Australia
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#1549
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Originally Posted by wmarone
Maemo.org or the freshmeat that now inhabits it? I don't think it's an "anti-linux" or "anti-open source" attitude so much as one of indifference from a demographic of users who don't give a rat's ar** about the roots of the OS, so much as it being "fcuking awesome" and having 50 gazillion apps to download.
Wow, Maemo.org has become very anti-Linux and anti-Open Source the past week or so.
I for one, love Maemo and thanks to a great dev community have every confidence that it will be around for years, at least for my uses.
That Nokia (as many businesses have done to OSS) have dumped Meego is a dissapointment, but i look forward to whoever picks it up and releases a mobile handset (still unsure if Nokia's "device" release this year will be a handset) and I'm sure if the device quality is there, I'll let my gadget victim brain takeover and buy one, regardless of the brand on the front.....
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2011-02-20
, 05:55
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Posts: 69 |
Thanked: 41 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
@ Sweden
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#1550
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Originally Posted by ysss
No, his shares go up, his wallet gets fatter, obvious, why should I be explaining this to you?
"Elops only responsibility is for the Microsoft stock he holds"
I think you meant to say "Elop's only responsibility is to Microsoft, due to the MS Share he has."
Questions:
1. Does MS exercise control over Elop because he owns MS share?
Originally Posted by ysss
No, but Nokia dropping Maemo (and theoretically android) and soon to be acquired by MS will.
2. Will running Nokia down to the ground have a positive effect on MS share value? (so far the answer is no)
Originally Posted by ysss
Yes, but I believe he's too stupid for that.
3. Does Elop, the already filthy rich b*@#tard, have other means to attain more personal gain (fame, fortune and glory) by doing good in Nokia than running it down to the ground?
Originally Posted by ysss
No, I said that developers know how to make working solutions, as long as their superiors stop putting sticks in their wheels.
Did you just say that generally developers know how to run multinational companies?
Originally Posted by ysss
Let me stop there for a bit, that whole paragraph is loaded with FUD. Free software is slowly eating away most of the market that the commercial software giants just recently had in their pocket. Nothing is going to change that. Either Nokia is in, or out.
If Nokia is facing an imminent cashflow problem if they continue on their current course, given what we know about their techs (opensourced Symbian, thrown away maemo and also dabbled in opensourced MeeGo), a very thin profit margin on a big chunk of their business (mobile phone) and receding marketshare on the hot and growing segment (smartphone), please tell me 3 possible sources for cash infusion.
People think that the phone business is somehow different, just because a lot of people suddenly started spending a lot of money on glorified dumbphones.
That market does not exist anymore in the next round.
Originally Posted by ysss
If you told mcdonalds to start selling burger king branded burger king burgers and forbid them from selling mcdonalds type ones, how much money do you think they'd want for it?
Please tell us how that's obvious; it's not obvious to me.
Originally Posted by ysss
Risks are only taken when you don't understand what the hell you're doing.
First off, I assume you're talking about public companies.
Second, pay/renumeration is a whole different can of worm to talk about. Suffice to say that you can't get it far cheaper unless you go to unproven candidates; and that's an even bigger risk to take when you talk about the kind of numbers these gargantuan companies are pulling in.
Originally Posted by ysss
Instead, why don't you give me an example of a successful small company that hasn't been innovative?
There are many ways to be profitable, and innovating is never the only way.
Please give a few examples of these small and innovative companies that you had in mind when you wrote that?
Even your corner pizzeria is innovative in the way that they were the first on that corner when no one else bothered. That innovation is the reason you go there.
A large corporation could just make sure there aren't any pizzerias in the whole area apart from theirs, which is a block away.
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| Tags |
| bye-nokia, i don't even, just shoot him, just shoot me, let's elope, lockdown, meego?fail, negatron dan, nokia defiled, nokia suicide, sell tulips, step 8 out of 5, the-end?, www.elop.org |
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