[Council] State of Maemo, Q32010.2 - Page 16 - maemo.org

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	danramos	2010-12-17 , 22:21
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Originally Posted by javispedro

Oh, I'm sure that the myriad of patched hildon-desktops around here modifying virtually any behaviour do not really exist...

Oh, patches! Oh, I'm sure, I'm sure. I'm sure there are a myriad of hildon replacements. Oh, I'm sure.

Originally Posted by javispedro

Thank Wayfinder for going nearly bankrupt and being bought!

Bought by whom?

Originally Posted by javispedro

Btw, Google Maps looks like is a closed source application to me.

For certain, it is. I'm also reasonably certain that this closed-source app continues to be supported, updated and improved even on older devices, unlike Wayfinder and OviMaps. Also, I'm very certain you can uninstall it or replace it with another mapping app (Verizon's replaced it with Bing Maps on several Android units, for example) and not break the OS. What precisely was your point in this particular conversation?

Originally Posted by javispedro

Please, please don't confuse lack of support with openness.

I didn't. I did, however, commit the awful sin of claiming far more freedom for the open-source portions from vendor lock-in by closed portions in Android than in Maemo. Gasp! Scandal!

Originally Posted by javispedro

I think you are getting this completely wrong. What people and even qgil himself bragged about is the easness by which people can root their own N900s, even in a Nokia-approved fashion. On your average Android phone the process is insanely more complicated, and the device vendor will usually try to stop you from doing it. After rooting, you're free to replace whatever you want of the system. The N900 even has a myriad of alternatives operating systems you can run on it (remember they replace _everyting_), including some other devices propietary ones. How many Android phones run something other than Android?

No, I'm pretty certain I've seen it bandied about many times that you need to root Android to do things you don't even need to root an N900 to do. :P Also, on both my Droid and my Samsung Galaxy Tab, the process to root the phone is no more complicated than to install a rooting app (say, EasyRoot or z4root) and tap the ROOT button. :P Hardly more difficult than it is on the N900 to install a root access application. And don't forget that many ROM images built from source replace EVERYTHING as well, like CyanogenMod, Ultimate Droid, etc.

I'll concede the point that I can't think of handsets that run any other operating systems other than Android, but then it's not to say that they couldn't--it is fair to say that there doesn't appear to be a lot of interest in trying to. If the firmware has been replaced with custom firmware (as I did with my Droid) you REALLY have full control over what OS you can have loaded and you COULD try put MeeGo on there if you really wanted to but I don't see the XDA forums ablaze with interest to do so.

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Last edited by danramos; 2010-12-17 at 22:35.

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Matan	2010-12-17 , 22:29
Posts: 1,224 \| Thanked: 1,763 times \| Joined on Jul 2007	#152

Originally Posted by javispedro

Please, please don't confuse lack of support with openness.

Surely it can't be confused in this context.

Android is more open than Maemo.

Maemo has a lot more "lack of support" than Android.

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"N900 community support for the MeeGo-Harmattan" Is the new "Mer is Fremantle for N810".

No more Nokia devices for me.

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slender	2010-12-17 , 22:35
Posts: 2,829 \| Thanked: 1,459 times \| Joined on Dec 2009 @ Finland	#153

Some offtopic
I´m getting rather bored and angry because people think that if you have Android then you are able to install whatever custom firmware-images and do rooting. So kind request: When you explain how supported Android is by Google and community then please add exact brand and model of your device pretty please.

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Last edited by slender; 2010-12-17 at 22:39.

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	danramos	2010-12-17 , 22:52
	Posts: 4,672 \| Thanked: 5,455 times \| Joined on Jul 2008 @ Springfield, MA, USA	#154

Originally Posted by slender

Some offtopic
I´m getting rather bored and angry because people think that if you have android then you are able to install whatever different root-images and do rooting. So kind request: When you explain how supported android is by Google and community then please add exact brand and model of your device pretty please.

I've repeated it many times, but I'll state it more clearly again: I'm currently using CyanogenMod 6.1.1, and had also tried out MANY, MANY other ROM image distributions of Android like Ultimate Droid, Ultimate Droid eXtreme (although I did use this one for a long time too... it was pretty nicely themed, but CyanogenMod feels cleaner and runs better on my battery), Bugless Beast (which was excellent, but far too sparse for my liking) and Lithium Mod. Added to this are the plethora of custom compiled kernels you can interchange with these ROM images (ChevyNo1, LiQuID FroZeN YoGurT, SnkBitten, etc.) and then all the theme packs, tweaks, hacks and other ROM modifiers that I'd played with. Is that good enough for ya?

I would like you to note that I have also repeated many times across many posts and threads that I have a Motorola Droid (A855, original flagship of the Droid army) and a Samsung Galaxy Tab (SCH-I800 Verizon variant, sadly the worst of the Tabs but still quite good). No, I won't share their serial numbers, in case you were going to start asking. :P

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slender	2010-12-17 , 23:08
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Originally Posted by danramos

I've repeated it many times, but I'll state it more clearly again: I'm currently using CyanogenMod 6.1.1, and had also tried out MANY, MANY other ROM image distributions of Android like Ultimate Droid, Ultimate Droid eXtreme (although I did use this one for a long time too... it was pretty nicely themed, but CyanogenMod feels cleaner and runs better on my battery), Bugless Beast (which was excellent, but far too sparse for my liking) and Lithium Mod. Added to this are the plethora of custom compiled kernels you can interchange with these ROM images (ChevyNo1, LiQuID FroZeN YoGurT, SnkBitten, etc.) and then all the theme packs, tweaks, hacks and other ROM modifiers that I'd played with. Is that good enough for ya?

I would like you to note that I have also repeated many times across many posts and threads that I have a Motorola Droid (A855, original flagship of the Droid army) and a Samsung Galaxy Tab (SCH-I800 Verizon variant, sadly the worst of the Tabs but still quite good). No, I won't share their serial numbers, in case you were going to start asking. :P

Thanks. Put your devices to your signature. I might have seen them in some thread but currently I see here and in many other forums people talking like that device with Android means that you are able to install all the stuff under sun to it just because well Android. IMO important thing is to always mention with that OS the device to what you are referring to.

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Last edited by slender; 2010-12-17 at 23:11.

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	danramos	2010-12-17 , 23:17
	Posts: 4,672 \| Thanked: 5,455 times \| Joined on Jul 2008 @ Springfield, MA, USA	#156

Originally Posted by slender

Thanks. Put your devices to your signature. I might have seen them in some thread but currently I see here and in many other forums people talking like that device with Android means that you are able to install all the stuff under sun to it just because well Android. IMO important thing is to always mention with that OS the device to what you are referring to.

The public profile for ITT/TMO has always had a field specifically for that (Handhelds) and mine has always has listed my devices. Although, I must thank you for reminding me about it so that I can add my Galaxy Tab to the list of devices.

Edit: I went in and added it to my signature anyway. Hope that helps.

Last edited by danramos; 2010-12-17 at 23:25.

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	Texrat	2010-12-17 , 23:34
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Many of the points I made in my previous post were apparently misunderstood (probably partly my fault). I'll clarify later.

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myrjola	2010-12-17 , 23:35
Posts: 84 \| Thanked: 121 times \| Joined on Jul 2007	#158

Originally Posted by danramos

Originally Posted by javispedro

Thank Wayfinder for going nearly bankrupt and being bought!

Bought by whom?

The original navigation software for 770/N800 was done by Navicore (a Finnish company) that was bought by Wayfinder (a Swedish company) in July 2007.

Wayfinder was then bought by Vodafone in 2008.

And Vodafone discontinued the Wayfinder navigation service in April 2010:
http://access.wayfinder.com/

I would not blame Nokia for the lack of updates/support for Wayfinder.

Of course Google and Nokia changed the game by offering their Maps & navigation software and services for free. Hard to compete with that.

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	danramos	2010-12-17 , 23:47
	Posts: 4,672 \| Thanked: 5,455 times \| Joined on Jul 2008 @ Springfield, MA, USA	#159

Originally Posted by myrjola

The original navigation software for 770/N800 was done by Navicore (a Finnish company) that was bought by Wayfinder (a Swedish company) in July 2007.

Wayfinder was then bought by Vodafone in 2008.

And Vodafone discontinued the Wayfinder navigation service in April 2010:
http://access.wayfinder.com/

I would not blame Nokia for the lack of updates/support for Wayfinder.

Of course Google and Nokia changed the game by offering their Maps & navigation software and services for free. Hard to compete with that.

Ah.. well, that makes some sense.

No, wait. It doesn't.

That leads me to wonder why Nokia bothered to buy Gate5 back in 2006 during the 770's era, then buy NavTec in 2007 during the N800's era, and lead us via our ROM image bundled GPS software into the middle of this wasteland?

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lma	2010-12-18 , 03:02
Posts: 2,802 \| Thanked: 4,491 times \| Joined on Nov 2007	#160

Originally Posted by javispedro

is the easness by which people can root their own N900s, even in a Nokia-approved fashion.

This is certainly true, and in fact a bit too easy for my taste (all it takes is a few seconds to install a package from extras, so effectively the only security you have is the device lock code).

I'm more than a little concerned about what level of control the owner will be "allowed" to have on future devices however. So far the information coming out of Nokia/MeeGo re: platform security is only about the mechanism rather than the policy, and thus there is a lot of uncertainty.

Eg, what trust level will the community repository be given? Will community apps be able to access addressbook data, determine the device's location, create VPN tunnels, make VoIP calls, install additional bluetooth profiles and so on? How much of the factory-installed stuff will still work, and how much of our own data can we still access if we switch to "open" mode? For the time being I'm taking it as granted that, in "closed" mode, the owner won't be able to do things like install u-boot, IPv6 or USB host mode support, defang cherry, or even debug stuff that breaks, which doesn't sound like something I personally would want to use. But if "open" mode effectively means you have to forego the vendor differentiation and run the reference MeeGo code what's the point of buying such a device in the first place?