N900 will not allow USB OTG! - Page 16 - maemo.org

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	allnameswereout	2009-09-21 , 21:12
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Originally Posted by BruceL

But this would be even better:
4. N900

I want to win the lotto too, but it ain't gonna happen, even though i pray every day and cry God help me win.

It was a tough, technical design decision as you can read on page 2 or 3 (igor, quoted by qgil).

Since N900 going to be released in october the N900 is already being manufactured.

So you will need to learn with the fact that N900 does not come with USB host mode enabled, and it probably cannot be easily hacked to enable it.

If it is important for you, you'll need to think of workarounds...

Originally Posted by thecursedfly

- I have a 1 TB HD with many movies, many MP3's, software, documents, images, whatever. I keep pretty much on there. And I assure you 32 GBs are not enough. Space is actually never enough

So, If I want to place a different music selection on my N900 for a party or travel, I would just have to attach the HD to the N900 in host mode. No intermediate steps via my shutdown computer.[/quote]

that is a lot of data. You need to give priority to your data and decide what you must have on the go.

You could host some of the data online and export this. Examples are Dropbox, GmailFS.

Or you attach your 1 TB on your home network, build VPN, and use UPnP over 3G. Won't work for XViD or DVD. Then you have to make choices (the horror).

[quote]- I could attach a USB DVD reader when needed; I never needed it so far, but hey, to have that possibility more would be great. Like not having bluetooth till you discover you could really use it for once; it's added value.

- USB keyboard or mouse eventually when needed[/SIZE]When needed, but not needed right now. This kind of thinking is an invitation to bloat.

An alternative for USB keyboard/mouse is BT keyboard/mouse.

- At home I only have wired internet (ethernet). And I don't want to buy a wifi router; I'm fine like this, I love ethernet. So, no USB-ethernet adapters.

Why do you not want to buy a WiFi router?

Without some kind of USB to ethernet convertor you cannot use your hypothetic N900-with-USB-host-mode on your ethernet-only network.

- USB flash drives (often at university)

Alternatives are provided above

- attach my digital camera

N900 camera is not good enough? Digital camera has no other way to export its pictures to your N900? My digital camera, quite an old and crappy one, has SD. I could use a microSD to SD converter together with it. No need to attach them either. You could also opt for Eye Fi, a SDIO + WiFi adapter for digital cameras.

Many things you can do with a USB host. None of these it it's missing. The bluetooth-USB, if it exists and works, would always need a source of power (while, if I'm not wrong, the N8x0 has enough power for flash drives, probably my digital camera, maybe keyboard, maybe mouse.. dunno whatever; some not, but for those I would find a cheap and small self powered USB hub). The transfer rate is slowish, but well, compromises and patience I guess.
Still, we have to find that bluetooth adapter, not sure if it exists.

Your digital camera has its own battery, just like a BT keyboard or mouse. Transfer rate of BlueTooth 2.1: 2 MB/sec. It exists, its referred to earlier in this thread. The BlueTooth to USB converter might be able to be powered by the N900 I don't know, interesting question.

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attila77	2009-09-21 , 21:18
Posts: 3,319 \| Thanked: 5,610 times \| Joined on Aug 2008 @ Finland	#152

Originally Posted by Texrat

Next device needs to have two micro USB ports.

Actually, the pandora folks got this even better, but of course, they did not have the same space constraints, but hey, I already said my pockets are big

USB 2.0 OTG port (1.5/12/480Mbps) with capability to charge device

USB 2.0 HOST port (480Mbps) capable of providing the full 500mA to attached devices

This way you have all combinations of host, client, charge, etc

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	allnameswereout	2009-09-21 , 21:24
	Posts: 3,397 \| Thanked: 1,212 times \| Joined on Jul 2008 @ Netherlands	#153

Originally Posted by qole

I love Ethernet too, but seriously, take a look at something like the Cisco/Linksys WRT54GL. It has a Linux OS that can be flashed to a custom enhanced version; it's a great Ethernet router; plus it does rock-solid, secure wireless.

Many DSL/cable modems come with WiFi nowadays. Some of them even support USB host mode and provide a USB port, so you could stick a printer/HDD in it. Or a USB WiFi adapter. Or power up your N900.

FWIW, I think MIFI supports USB OTG.

To solve lack of USB host mode the best option is IMO some kind of small converter/modem which allows the NIT to connect to a mobile USB OTG device. Optionally with its own battery. Or, some kind of USB powered hub which provides this. Like a 'USB router' which also serves as server for N900 and all other devices lacking USB host mode because it supports itself USB host mode. Does this exist?

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UCOMM	2009-09-21 , 21:27
Posts: 232 \| Thanked: 106 times \| Joined on Sep 2009 @ Chicago/D.C./Katowice	#154

Originally Posted by Texrat

Next device needs to have two micro USB ports.

i heard it wont have a single usb port save for the one for charging

i heard they're going to stick a wireless usb port in there

imo i think i'll hold off on my purchase and wait for that

andree	2009-09-21 , 21:30
Posts: 119 \| Thanked: 110 times \| Joined on Sep 2009 @ Prague	#155

Originally Posted by allnameswereout

So you will need to learn with the fact that N900 does not come with USB host mode enabled, and it probably cannot be easily hacked to enable it.

you sound a little too definitive, for a guy who doesn't have the hardware in his hands

The quoted articles don't provide too much info either - they would be more respectable, if they were written by actual nokia hardware developer members (which they aren't).

Originally Posted by allnameswereout

You could host some of the data online and export this. Examples are Dropbox, GmailFS.

Or you attach your 1 TB on your home network, build VPN, and use UPnP over 3G. Won't work for XViD or DVD. Then you have to make choices (the horror).

yep, that sounds like completely obvious solution - to workaround the copying by sending the data through half of the internet :-)

Originally Posted by allnameswereout

Why do you not want to buy a WiFi router?

Without some kind of USB to ethernet convertor you cannot use your hypothetic N900-with-USB-host-mode on your ethernet-only network.

Imagine being a system administrator going into a server room. 99% of such rooms don't contain a wifi network.. Not to mention 802.1x, telnetting to switches, and similar stuff...

Originally Posted by allnameswereout

N900 camera is not good enough?

I'm sure you're not comparing 1/12345678'' inch sensor of the n900 to dslr camera sensor here - are you?

Originally Posted by allnameswereout

The BlueTooth to USB converter might be able to be powered by the N900 I don't know, interesting question.

Couldn't find a bt-2-usbhost convertor anywhere (the other way around is easy).. I can't quite imagine what kind of driver architecture would you use for that stuff (like connecting n900 - bt - bt_dongle - usb_host - usb_device_like_usb_2_ethernet) - I'm not exactly sure any driver is ready for this scenario, even in linux kernel. But I could be wrong and this one could (at least in linux) work by creating some kind of loopback device...

Damn, wish some nokia representative could come and give us answers - instead of arguing here about nothing and all...

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	allnameswereout	2009-09-21 , 21:37
	Posts: 3,397 \| Thanked: 1,212 times \| Joined on Jul 2008 @ Netherlands	#156

Originally Posted by jthiemann

Hmmm, I like hooking my Arduino up to my N800. In the N900 PUSH documents, they seem to use a bluetooth-serial adapter ("BlueSMIRF bluetooth modem"). Bummer.

Indeed... http://blogs.nokia.com/pushn900/wp-c..._guidev1.0.pdf

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attila77	2009-09-21 , 21:48
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Originally Posted by allnameswereout

N900 camera is not good enough? Digital camera has no other way to export its pictures to your N900? My digital camera, quite an old and crappy one, has SD. I could use a microSD to SD converter together with it. No need to attach them either. You could also opt for Eye Fi, a SDIO + WiFi adapter for digital cameras.

As I'm a guy with a camera problem (yes, probably completely atypical), let me try to explain.

MTP. EyeFi and microSD won't help there. I was hoping the N900 will resolve the MTP problems/lockups and allow for remote controlled cameras so I could use it for shooting stars and funky time-lapse stuff

capacity. HD material will run you 5-20GB per hour, so 32GB is not an unfillable resource (actually, if 32GB was enough, I would not bother with the tablet at all, I'd just buy a 32GB SD )

mobility. I often leave the enclosure for copying stuff over. If that would be my NIT/netbook, I'd have to leave it (not gonna happen) or wait (the horror )

retrieval speed. I copy TO the HDD via USB host, but copy BACK to my main machine via eSATA. Seriously, copying Nx10G via USB (especially if it goes through a translation layer like with the NIT or a camera) is just not fun (yes, I know, the horror )

	allnameswereout	2009-09-21 , 21:49
	Posts: 3,397 \| Thanked: 1,212 times \| Joined on Jul 2008 @ Netherlands	#158

Originally Posted by andree

you sound a little too definitive, for a guy who doesn't have the hardware in his hands The quoted articles don't provide too much info either - they would be more respectable, if they were written by actual nokia hardware developer members (which they aren't).

What do you mean? qgil quotes igor.

yep, that sounds like completely obvious solution - to workaround the copying by sending the data through half of the internet :-)

Why not? If its data you commonly need you have it with you. If you're not sure you need the data or you might need it in some cases you host it online on a service like Dropbox, Gmail, or your home server.

I found 1 TB a rather unrealistic amount of data, and the required weight and size make one less mobile.

Imagine being a system administrator going into a server room. 99% of such rooms don't contain a wifi network.. Not to mention 802.1x, telnetting to switches, and similar stuff...

RS232 <-> BlueTooth adapter together with N900 is pretty damn useful there.

I'm sure you're not comparing 1/12345678'' inch sensor of the n900 to dslr camera sensor here - are you?

DSLR. Hah. If you can afford that you can afford a CF to WiFi or SD to WiFi card for it too.

Couldn't find a bt-2-usbhost convertor anywhere (the other way around is easy).. I can't quite imagine what kind of driver architecture would you use for that stuff (like connecting n900 - bt - bt_dongle - usb_host - usb_device_like_usb_2_ethernet) - I'm not exactly sure any driver is ready for this scenario, even in linux kernel. But I could be wrong and this one could (at least in linux) work by creating some kind of loopback device...

At least USB <-> BlueTooth SPP profile exists.

Damn, wish some nokia representative could come and give us answers - instead of arguing here about nothing and all...

Or perhaps read the whole thread. Everything I say in this post is just rehashed from other posts...

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	quingu	2009-09-21 , 21:51
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What's wrong with having more options, or more elegant ways of doing stuff?

Of course most of us will have a laptop at hand and won't see a missing usb connectivity with the n900 as a problem - but it would have been a great bonus.

Connecting stuff through a chain of adapters, some of them soldered on your own? Been there, done that - with my 770. Which cost me 300+ Euros in january 2006.

Having to explain: No, can't do that directly, i'll have to tether it to my phone first? Been there, done that.

That was ok. The former NITs are more toys than serious business devices. But they had a fair price that still left you with some money to buy and add the stuff the devices were missing.

The n900 is NOT a toy for me. It is a darn expensive thing and I will have to abstain on many nice things in the next months in order to be able to pay for it.

It gets so many things right. It should be able to get a simple USB plug right, too. That stuff has been around for years.

Of course my life doesn't depend on that plug. But it's a letdown nonetheless!

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	allnameswereout	2009-09-21 , 21:59
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@ quingu, the lessons are that 1) no convergence device is perfect or gives you exactly the features you need while not giving you any features you don't need 2) because of step 4/5 there are some features and design choices optimized for less technical inclined people. Sometimes that means sacrifices for the techies 3) in the thread earlier it was explained why a second USB plug was not a feasable solution 4) so to implement USB host mode would have seriously delayed the release of Nokia N900, while Nokia N810 is from 2007...

Originally Posted by attila77

As I'm a guy with a camera problem (yes, probably completely atypical), let me try to explain.

MTP. EyeFi and microSD won't help there. I was hoping the N900 will resolve the MTP problems/lockups and allow for remote controlled cameras so I could use it for shooting stars and funky time-lapse stuff

What is MTP?

retrieval speed. I copy TO the HDD via USB host, but copy BACK to my main machine via eSATA. Seriously, copying Nx10G via USB (especially if it goes through a translation layer like with the NIT or a camera) is just not fun (yes, I know, the horror )

FireWire 800 would give you almost twice the speed, and is more reliable than USB. Ofcourse your devices would need to support it.

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