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2010-07-12
, 14:09
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#162
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Originally Posted by ossipena
No. I meant exactly what I said. It has absolutely nothing to do with Apple. I've been an investor since the mid-80's and if you're trying to pull in how investors follow trends, let's put that to a rest right now.
well... don't know how much you really know about stock markets in reality but mass movements create a lot of arbitrage to those who have guts to swim crosscurrent. now there is a great panic about nokia. reasonable people and somewhat reasonable bots stir the soup and there is no sense to be seen atm.
your reply applies to idealistic investors but in certain situations, masses flow stupidly. and with apple masses are speculating. no dividend means people are waiting for bigger share price. with companies that pay constant dividends, price solely means nothing. and if dividends stay at certain level, real time pricing of stock has no effect to anything.
The trend is to make money. The other situations, such as historical reasons to invest into a company ideal for altruistic reasons... that's being idealistic. And as of late, foolish.
Speculation is just that... speculation. You speculate like you do a hot area that might or might not have gold. And in this case, to see Nokia go from ~40 per share to ~8 per share, the disappointment is well-deserved. And I'm quite sure the dividends have not remained at the same level. To believe otherwise shows an entire lack of understanding in investing.
Here's your proof. It's currently on par with what was paid out in 2006 - around 48 cents per stock, down from 84 cents per stock in 2008.
This is yet another deflated stock that would probably be worthwhile purchasing - I just bought some - if your goals are indeed long-term and the management shakes out to forge a direction that's accepted by all shareholders as the right step forward.
Right now, that's not the case.
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2010-07-12
, 14:11
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Posts: 219 |
Thanked: 21 times |
Joined on May 2010
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#163
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nokia should drop meego and install vsync in maemo.
then game over.
FOR EVERY OTHER PHONE OUT THERE!
then game over.
FOR EVERY OTHER PHONE OUT THERE!
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2010-07-14
, 18:57
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Posts: 4,672 |
Thanked: 5,455 times |
Joined on Jul 2008
@ Springfield, MA, USA
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#164
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Originally Posted by barzam
What you might see, in terms of openness, is a severe lack of any real difference between Google's Android and Nokia's Maemo (possibly MeeGo, if it maintains the same damned status quo where community can't fix their own bugs for all the closed components Nokia forces into their damned OS images, with no usable alternative OS to turn to on these devices). Basically, it's a lack of advantage compared to Android.
Actually I don't see much people in here complaining about Android being closed. What ticks me off about Android is that Google themselves are in charge of the direction it's taking whereas Meego hopefully will turn about to be a true community effort. Not saying Google necessarily is taking it in a bad direction, on the contrary I think they've done a superb job finally bringing a Linux distro to the masses without people even noticing that it's Linux.
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2010-07-14
, 19:06
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Posts: 1,746 |
Thanked: 2,100 times |
Joined on Sep 2009
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#165
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Originally Posted by danramos
The advantage to MeeGo is that it is not bound to Nokia devices. There are some inescapable bits (thus far) with all ARM devices, namely the 3D drivers and the like tend to be closed. The only handset without this issue seems to be the Aava devkit but, well, yeah.
if it maintains the same damned status quo where community can't fix their own bugs for all the closed components Nokia forces into their damned OS images, with no usable alternative OS to turn to on these devices.
The -core- of MeeGo is open, which is important. And thus far, it's possible to assemble a MeeGo image with the closed bits pulled in. With luck, anyone should be able to pull those closed bits themselves and merge them with whatever (Linux-based) OS you want to install.
Getting a fully open device would be REALLY FREAKING NICE, but lacking that is not a reason to push towards Google's platform in lieu of MeeGo, IMO.
Driver and binary blob situation being equal between MeeGo and Android, MeeGo is not controlled by Google exclusively. That exclusive control (and single source dependency) makes vendors like Motorola nervous. MeeGo's independence is attractive from the same standpoint that makes the Linux kernel attractive, and hopefully will draw in vendors.
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2010-07-14
, 19:28
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Posts: 4,672 |
Thanked: 5,455 times |
Joined on Jul 2008
@ Springfield, MA, USA
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#166
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Originally Posted by wmarone
Having lived through the whole N800 era up to now, I'll believe it when I see it. I feel like I can no longer believe that Nokia wouldn't cripple it up like they have so far, even up to today.
The advantage to MeeGo is that it is not bound to Nokia devices.
Originally Posted by wmarone
So, once again, you're pointing out how Nokia isn't any different from any other not-really-open handset maker, and putting it on even keel with Android. Why bother with Meamo or MeeGo, if I can get better support from another hardware manufacturer and Android keeps getting fixed up and supported better and more often than the Maemo track record this far?
There are some inescapable bits (thus far) with all ARM devices, namely the 3D drivers and the like tend to be closed. The only handset without this issue seems to be the Aava devkit but, well, yeah.
Originally Posted by wmarone
I thought Nokia had provided binary driver bits for Maemo before too. How did that work out? How was getting bugfixes and updates for them? Still seems hostile to open-source. Also, I highly recommend you read http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?s...00704191126134
The -core- of MeeGo is open, which is important. And thus far, it's possible to assemble a MeeGo image with the closed bits pulled in. With luck, anyone should be able to pull those closed bits themselves and merge them with whatever (Linux-based) OS you want to install.
Originally Posted by wmarone
Why not? So far, I have pushed associates, friends and family that way and they've been MUCH happier after the N800 fiascos. You have NO idea how much better it has been to support them even though I insist on working in open-source environments. Ultimately, I need to go where the experience is better and Nokia with Maemo has left all of us with painful experiences to remember when the time comes around to purchase new devices and the operating system to work with.
Getting a fully open device would be REALLY FREAKING NICE, but lacking that is not a reason to push towards Google's platform in lieu of MeeGo, IMO.
Originally Posted by wmarone
Let's hope that turn into a genuine advantage--MeeGo is a new name, but having Nokia involved makes me wonder how much Maemo status quo will influence the end product and direction.
Driver and binary blob situation being equal between MeeGo and Android, MeeGo is not controlled by Google exclusively. That exclusive control (and single source dependency) makes vendors like Motorola nervous. MeeGo's independence is attractive from the same standpoint that makes the Linux kernel attractive, and hopefully will draw in vendors.
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2010-07-14
, 19:32
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Posts: 3,428 |
Thanked: 2,856 times |
Joined on Jul 2008
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#167
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Originally Posted by danramos
Haven't really been following the thread..
Having lived through the whole N800 era up to now, I'll believe it when I see it. I feel like I can no longer believe that Nokia wouldn't cripple it up like they have so far, even up to today.
Just dropped by to say:
Nokia's phones based on MeeGo could very likely be just another N8x0 or N900. It could very well contain other proprietary bits and pieces that make it not run on anything else.
This is not the fault MeeGo though, MeeGo itself (the way it appears to be planned anyway), should not be bound by any hardware requirements short of the hardware that linux itself is bound by.
Remember, MeeGo is just the framework and OS - the UI, Interface, UX, etc.. will all be different from manufacturer to manufacturer and you likely will find manufacturers using MeeGo to sell iphone-like closed phones.
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2010-07-14
, 19:46
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Posts: 3,319 |
Thanked: 5,610 times |
Joined on Aug 2008
@ Finland
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#168
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Originally Posted by fatalsaint
Umm... No
Remember, MeeGo is just the framework and OS - the UI, Interface, UX, etc.. will all be different from manufacturer to manufacturer and you likely will find manufacturers using MeeGo to sell iphone-like closed phones.
That's like saying Debian is just a framework and Ubuntu is the OS because it includes all those fancy closed bits and eyecandy tweaks. MeeGo is NOT a framework, it IS a full blown OS. It *can* be customized, preloaded (and diluted) by manufacturers who push it under a different name and/or package, but that does make MeeGo less of an OS.
__________________
Blogging about mobile linux - The Penguin Moves!
Maintainer of PyQt (see introduction and docs), AppWatch, QuickBrownFox, etc
Blogging about mobile linux - The Penguin Moves!
Maintainer of PyQt (see introduction and docs), AppWatch, QuickBrownFox, etc
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2010-07-14
, 19:52
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Posts: 4,672 |
Thanked: 5,455 times |
Joined on Jul 2008
@ Springfield, MA, USA
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#169
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Originally Posted by fatalsaint
You're not really helping to argue against anything I just said in this debate. :P
Remember, MeeGo is just the framework and OS - the UI, Interface, UX, etc.. will all be different from manufacturer to manufacturer and you likely will find manufacturers using MeeGo to sell iphone-like closed phones.
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2010-07-14
, 19:52
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Posts: 3,428 |
Thanked: 2,856 times |
Joined on Jul 2008
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#170
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Originally Posted by attila77
That is very close to how I see it, actually.
Umm... No
Ubuntu is Debian. It's just debian modified, more-so than most phones will be from MeeGo. It would be like, if Ubuntu used debian's own repo's and just setup sudo-packages to pre-install certain configurations.
That is how I see MeeGo operating.
The MeeGo we get from phone to phone is likely to have a very different user experience. Somewhat like the HTC Sense UI vs MotoBlur vs ... the Nook.
And some (or most) of those experiences can and likely will be very proprietary and unable to screw with.
Just because MeeGo goes the way of, say, pulseaudio or alsa or whatever, doesn't mean the end phone based on MeeGo needs to. They can have their own proprietary system in there if they want. Our current issue in Maemo with the audio system is it's not documented, and the core media apps are closed right? Nothing is stopping Nokia from doing this all over again with their phone based on MeeGo.
MeeGo is just the basic OS.. everything on top of that will be up to the discretion of the manufacturer. Unless you're telling me that the Linux Foundation is going to start requiring people using MeeGo to abide by certain rules to using their OS....
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If I've helped you or you use any of my packages feel free to help me out.
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Maintaining:
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Last edited by fatalsaint; 2010-07-14 at 19:55.
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