Well.. that'll learn you guys good.

If you aren't prepared to impulse buy you must not want it!!! :P

Isn't it weird? My buddy was a Newton enthusiast from day one. He never seemed to worry about losing software support; he was worried about hardware replacement. I get it now. But that doesn't mean I think it's cool.

Yeah, it's not as if all the power went out just as I was clicking. If that was the case, I might not be here to post this. And we all know that would be a shame.

a) Cavemen vs Renaissance Men

There's too many mixed ways to read that, so it's really just a way for any given person to try to characterize themselves as enlightened and their detractors as backward and stupid. Ego stroking factions aren't going to help the community go anywhere useful. Grow up.


b) "What I want in a convergence device" ... Hmm....

* Open Source platform, so I don't have to worry about it shutting down and going into the nether regions. Maemo is, as far as I recall, 90% open with a few key drivers that aren't (with lots of chatter about whether or not that's Nokia's fault). Has that changed? Even still, for now, Maemo is close enough. But, with Ubuntu Mobile on MIDs, Android, the opening of Symbian, and the imminent release of Pandora ... it's hard to say that Maemo is the only current open source handheld platform.

* physical qwerty keyboard -- I kinda like the split thumb keyboard more than the side-slider format (N810) or micro-laptop (E90), both of which I like more than the "half of the face" keyboard (E71, E61i, Blackjack, etc.). The problem is getting a split-qwerty into a device that will fit in your pocket and still has a decent screen size (the E70 having the split keyboard, but too small on the screen). If I want a convergence device, one device I'll use for everything, then I'd probably have to go with something in the general format of the N810 or E90. Of the two, I'd prefer a re-vamped E90.

* ssh that has port forwarding (for use with my next requirement)

* vnc client/viewer (which will require some decent screen real estate; nothing smaller than the N810's screen, nor resolution)

* decent RSS reader (Maemo's is not yet good enough here, but I mostly like it; anything else would have to be better ... fully drivable via touchscreen or buttons, it would be nice to see it eliminate redundant articles from related sites (multiple feeds from one host, same article text, but unique URLs? either give me 1 summary and 2 URLs, or 1 summary and 1 URL ... but when they have the same article URL? just show me 1 summary with 1 URL), and have the option to have the feeds flow together; Maemo's home applet would be better if it eliminated redundancies, could optionally show you the summary text, and could be used to directly say "save the article" without having to open the main RSS reader ... or, without the article summaries, if you could tell it to JUST open the article summary for that article (instead of that entire feed), when you open the main RSS reader)

* mozilla based web browser

* thunderbird based IMAP client

* TXT based notes

* calendar with to-do

* address book

* sync calendar and addressbook to my desktop (linux and/or mac required) and/or google

* sync bookmarks to netvouz

* integrated IM and addressbook, with support for AIM, Yahoo, MSN, IRC, and Jabber (and SIP, so a SIP client, too).

* Skype and Gizmo clients would be cool. Vonage would be a nice bonus.

* usb client, hopefully for charging it, but at least for syncing and mounting as a hard drive (it'd be nice if, unlike the S60 devices, you could do both at once). As I mention below, I also want usb host capability. I don't want them on the same port though, so "1 usb client, 1 usb host-and/or-otg".

* Wifi built in (not "you must share your external SD slot for both removable storage and Wifi").

* Bluetooth (with both DUN and PAN, HID as both device and host, and BIP as both device and host) (no, I don't consider the current state of PAN support to be good enough, unless that got more integrated into the control panel wizard with Diablo, I haven't checked).

* GSM/UMTS with either variants or dual support for AT&T and T-Mobile-USA (you said convergence, which means "I wont be carrying both a phone and a PDA/IT and a PMP" -- so anyone who wants convergence can't be in the anti-phone-in-IT camp). It should have SIP and UMA support as well. Variants for CDMA/EVDO and WiMAX would be cool, but I'm a GSM boy.

* I'm not big on PMP stuff, but it'd have to have decent things here to support that if this is going to be a convergence device (as I said in my last bullet item). The ideal would be having something that directly/easily/seamlessly integrates with: "Comes with Music", iTunes, Rhapsody (stream _AND_ cache/download), Amazon's service, maybe even the Zune service, and any services offered by carriers (T-Mobile has one, for example), and self-downloaded/ripped files. I doubt that'll ever happen.

* capability to plug into a KVM switch and let me use it as a light/thin workstation. So, either a docking connector, or USB Host and Micro-DVI connectors (preferred over HDMI and VGA, since DVI with DVI-A can be converted to both HDMI and VGA, but HDMI and VGA based connectors are less flexible). And, support for more resolution than the N810 (the native device could just be 800x480, but it better be able to externally display 1280x1024-ish, and have the interface scale accordingly). (or at _least_ 1024x760-ish)

* two small batteries, or one standard battery and 1 tiny (button) battery so you can hot-swap batteries

* extended battery options (replace one of the "2 small" batteries with a bigger battery, but hopefully in a way that still leaves the device comfortable in your hand)

* external battery options (there are few products on the market for this, just make sure this device works with them, if it isn't going to have dedicated ones of its own)



However, I'm not 100% convinced that what I want is a convergence device. I might actually prefer a gateway device, and utility devices. But, so far, there is no such acceptable gateway device. What is an acceptable gateway device?

* preferably has variants for GSM/UMTS (Euro, Asian, AT&T, and T-Mobile-USA support, preferably in _ONE_ unit, and it'd be REALLY nice if it had two SIM cards), CDMA/EVDO, and WiMAX.

* has a SIP server built in, so that I can utilize its voice network capabilities from my utility devices. Possibly also being to use its SIP sever to gateway to things like Skype, Gizmo, and even Vonage. And UMA support would be cool, for those using T-Mobile as their carrier.

* has a jabber server built in, so that i can utilize its SMS/MMS capabilities from my utility devices.

* can act as both a wifi client (for paid hotspots and such) and a wifi access point (for my utility devices). Preferably with more than just WEP for privacy/encryption (that's all joikuspot supports, for example). Preferably able to do both simultaneously (so that I don't have to constantly juggle the connections of the utility devices).

I doubt that Android will be doing this right out of the box, but my biggest hope right now is that the G1 will be able to handle those last 3 things as add-ons and/or hacks. And if it has decent support for most of my convergence device needs, then it could actually function in both worlds (use it in my hand as a replacement for my N810 and E61i, use it alongside an iPod Touch and Samsung Q1 Ultra as a gateway device for those utility devices when I need something bigger and/or specialized).



If anyone knows of something that has all of either of those... let me know, but so far, no device out there meets all either my convergence or gateway desires.

johnkzin, telling me to grow up is eqotisical. You obviously have not be reading this thread from earlier on otherwise you would know that the you-people, thoses-people, caveman stuff has just been light-hearted humor and everyone that been involved knows that, accept you.

Im all grown up for your info.

You create a new thread and put your lengthy diatribe inside there.

This thread is lighthearted and useless and not desrving of anyone coming along and taking it too serious. Go and start a new and more serious thread.

NO U!!!

(couldn't resist)

Actually, I did read the early parts of the thread. I've followed the thread from the start (though, I think I might have missed some of the middle posts).

But, given that there have been lots of condescending and caustic things said on these boards between the "no radio, not a convergence device" group and the other side, it was rather easy for me to assume that the last few pages of "caveman" talk were more of the same ... no matter _how_ the thread started.

That said, if it was all in humor, I'm sorry for the "grow up" comment. However, I'm not at all sorry for a serious post about what I would or wouldn't want to see in a convergence device, since that IS the title of the thread.

Note for the JUST joining among us: yes--intended to be funny.. and preferably read with a nasal and arrogant Harvard tone:
I abhor these.. MENDICANTS that show up asking our opinions and then cast upon our debate the label of 'childish.' To them I say, "Poop on you.' Yes, I say, 'Poop.' So there. Now I've said it.

That's okay. Please, by all means,join in. I like the petty bickering in this thread.

It might be time for a poll:

When do you think this thread will be froze

IBTL!!! (dang... Post is too short.. THAT blows.)