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The N900 is now 15 years old! (9)
to Nokia N900 by Arno_11 - 14 hrs, 58 mins ago -
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2010-08-06
, 15:26
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Joined on Dec 2009
@ Finland
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#162
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@fatalsaint
btw.
Just before i make any post. Please remember that meego(or itīs components) is /are developed fully open so Nokia also provides code to upstream from where people can make their own packages back to non officially.
This has already been happening with maemo if you have read bugzilla reports where people have made their own packages to fix modest and hildon-desktop.
So i do not know what to say about this kind of support which comes around loop to users from Nokia. Its not official but itīs something.
.edit
Also it looks like we have bit different definitons for term dead.
Last edited by slender; 2010-08-06 at 15:31.
btw.
Just before i make any post. Please remember that meego(or itīs components) is /are developed fully open so Nokia also provides code to upstream from where people can make their own packages back to non officially.
This has already been happening with maemo if you have read bugzilla reports where people have made their own packages to fix modest and hildon-desktop.
So i do not know what to say about this kind of support which comes around loop to users from Nokia. Its not official but itīs something.
.edit
Also it looks like we have bit different definitons for term dead.
Last edited by slender; 2010-08-06 at 15:31.
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2010-08-06
, 15:31
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Posts: 8 |
Thanked: 5 times |
Joined on Jan 2010
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#163
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Originally Posted by jacktanner
i hope you are not holding your breath on that this phone is dead
You're trolling. There will almost certainly be a PR1.3, and there will be a community supported upgrade to MeeGo. Is that not enough? This device has a long future ahead.
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2010-08-06
, 15:33
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Joined on Jul 2008
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#164
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Originally Posted by slender
We agree on this. I'm not saying the N900 is going to die.. I am speaking specifically from a Nokia and official support perspective, which is important to consumers.
@fatalsaint
btw.
Just before i make any post. Please remember that meego(or itīs components) is /are developed fully open so Nokia also provides code to upstream from where people can make their own packages back to non officially.
This has already been happening with maemo if you have read bugzilla reports where people have made their own packages to fix modest and hildon-desktop.
So i do not know what to say about this kind of support which comes around loop to users from Nokia. Its not official but itīs something.
Hopefully, with MeeGo being as open as it is, the community WILL get MeeGo past Nokia's dropping off point, and into a very workable and formidable alternative (we should at least get flash, and OVI maps at that point)... but also remember: Several drivers for the N900 are closed source. I'm not saying this is Nokia's fault in that Nokia may/may not want to open the drivers, it very well could be the manufacturers fault, however it's Nokia's fault for using hardware that requires them to keep it closed.
In order to built a proper MeeGo right now for the n900 that won't cause issues and actually gets a nice UI - you have to download the build from an official nokia hosted code-drop. Not the general MeeGo download repo's. That is a key thing to remember.
Even if the community is able to extend MeeGo to a great working point on the N900: We can't be sure of a simple drop-in flash replacement image because of the closed hardware.
I could be wrong here .. and would need input from Stskeeps on that.
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Maintaining:
pyRadio - Pandora Radio on your N900, N810 or N800!
If I've helped you or you use any of my packages feel free to help me out.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maintaining:
pyRadio - Pandora Radio on your N900, N810 or N800!
Last edited by fatalsaint; 2010-08-06 at 15:52.
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2010-08-06
, 15:39
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Posts: 11,700 |
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Joined on Jun 2006
@ North Texas, USA
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#165
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Originally Posted by twigleaf1976
For all its faults, and I will grant every one of them, Nokia still comes closest to providing a true, viable handheld computing experience. That in fact is likely one of the problems for the company: others have tried and failed. Nokia has screwed up on many fronts, but at least they're still trying to find a way to make a mobile computer work. That's why many in the community grit their teeth over missteps and keep trying.
Just think your talents should really be put to other companies, ones that actually value the customers.
__________________
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
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2010-08-06
, 15:45
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Posts: 3,428 |
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Joined on Jul 2008
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#166
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Originally Posted by Texrat
Ehhhh I'd go with a yes and no.
For all its faults, and I will grant every one of them, Nokia still comes closest to providing a true, viable handheld computing experience. That in fact is likely one of the problems for the company: others have tried and failed. Nokia has screwed up on many fronts, but at least they're still trying to find a way to make a mobile computer work. That's why many in the community grit their teeth over missteps and keep trying.
The N900 is definitely the most desktop like device, if that's your definition of computing... but since Android now has Flash built-in to the browser and they also have java support (IIRC) - I think they have a slight edge on that now.
I really don't like flash.. but even I wind up at sites that give the infamous "You need to upgrade" message.. and many of them (browsers/android) allow you to change the browser's identification string to show a desktop browser and a lot of the websites will show in true desktop form.
So, while the N900's OS is the closest to a desktop, I think there's a slight edge for Android in providing a desktop-like web experience.
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2010-08-06
, 15:46
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Joined on Dec 2007
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#167
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Originally Posted by fatalsaint
I don't think there's any company that provides hardware you see in current and future smartphones, tablets that have open drivers. In that case the alternative would be not to make the device at all...
Several drivers for the N900 are closed source. I'm not saying this is Nokia's fault in that Nokia may/may not want to open the drivers, it very well could be the manufacturers fault, however it's Nokia's fault for using hardware that requires them to keep it closed.
Originally Posted by Texrat
Yeah..but as much as I love my computer in my pocket I am willing to sacrifice the computer aspect and get an Android smartphone if nobody else decides to join in on Meego. Surprisingly it isn't this whole issue that has me fed up with Nokia (though it's annoying how maemo gets kicked around). It's the continual refusal to acknowledge the USB port is an issue and to just fix it like Microsoft does for RROD.
For all its faults, and I will grant every one of them, Nokia still comes closest to providing a true, viable handheld computing experience. That in fact is likely one of the problems for the company: others have tried and failed. Nokia has screwed up on many fronts, but at least they're still trying to find a way to make a mobile computer work. That's why many in the community grit their teeth over missteps and keep trying.
Oh and they stiffed me the $50 they still owe me for the rebate.
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Originally Posted by ysss
They're maemo and MeeGo...
"Meamo!" sounds like what Zorro would say to catherine zeta jones... after she slaps him for looking at her dirtily...
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2010-08-06
, 15:50
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Posts: 3,428 |
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Joined on Jul 2008
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#168
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Originally Posted by Laughing Man
Acceptable response.. but something to consider:
I don't think there's any company that provides hardware you see in current and future smartphones, tablets that have open drivers. In that case the alternative would be not to make the device at all...
Look at the plethora of Android ROM's out there.. this could go to my total lack of understanding of the very very very low-levels of Android.. but how can they build ROM's for Devices without the drivers?
Now.. I'd understand if the core kernel/linux/drivers stay the same when you flash an android ROM and you just update the Davlik-Half-asked-sucky-Java VM on top.. but I don't think that's the case.
In my understand you are flashing a whole kernel and everything.. and the only thing any of the android guys have gotten in trouble for (to my knowledge) was Cyanogen distributing Google's stuff. So they have to be getting their drivers from somewhere..
(Although, and there's a caveat here: I do remember having to jump through hoops to update the radio on the G1 for things like the DANGER-SPL...)
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2010-08-06
, 16:00
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Posts: 3,319 |
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@ Finland
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#169
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Originally Posted by Laughing Man
Ovi Maps can't go in vanilla MeeGo (just as Google Maps can't go into plain Android, but it's a long story...). The point is that you can even open-source the code of the application and give it everybody, the actual product is the data, which is very heavily controlled, with Navteq/Teleatlas on the kill-switch. And data is super-expensive to obtain and keep up-to-date. Don't let the fact that you as a customer don't pay extra, it's just being financed by other means. Unless you're talking about Ovi Maps using openstreetmap as a back-end, but would you really trust that as reliable source for navigation ?
Though I personally think that they should put a QT version of Ovi Maps in vanilla Meego. Considering their biggest competitor is Android and nearly every Android device comes with Google Maps. If Nokia wants to combat Android they need other manufacturers to produce Meego devices. By providing Ovi Maps with vanilla Meego any manufacturer could then take that and sell their smartphone with GPS included. Especially if they want to get into the services and advertisement business like Google does and what Apple is getting more into.
Originally Posted by fatalsaint
Just to correct a small misconception. Flash is technically not built-in to the browser. FroYo provides some extra hooks for it, but actual device-specific porting and certification is required, plus you need adequate distribution licenses from Adobe. The bottom line - Flash is not part of FroYo's browser but is supported by it. Why this nitpick ? Because it affects the support cycle - it's not Google's job to maintain Flash, so it will be interesting to see the future of Flash after FroYo.
The N900 is definitely the most desktop like device, if that's your definition of computing... but since Android now has Flash built-in to the browser and they also have java support (IIRC) - I think they have a slight edge on that now.
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Blogging about mobile linux - The Penguin Moves!
Maintainer of PyQt (see introduction and docs), AppWatch, QuickBrownFox, etc
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2010-08-06
, 16:06
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Posts: 3,428 |
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#170
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Originally Posted by attila77
Ok, I'll concede that point and it makes sense. Speaking currently though, any devices with Froyo and getting Froyo are expected to get Flash 10.1.. correct?
Just to correct a small misconception. Flash is technically not built-in to the browser. FroYo provides some extra hooks for it, but actual device-specific porting and certification is required, plus you need adequate distribution licenses from Adobe. The bottom line - Flash is not part of FroYo's browser but is supported by it. Why this nitpick ? Because it affects the support cycle - it's not Google's job to maintain Flash, so it will be interesting to see the future of Flash after FroYo.
So yes, theoretical development device, because it's obvious MeeGo is moving along with Moorestown, while the N900 is still playing catchup.
No, the n900 is the device they have right now, and it's working, and that is the only reason they are using it to aide in MeeGo development. Nothing at all to do with them expecting a "future". They only "future" we know of is PR1.3. Now, I'll certainly change my opinion if going from PR1.2 to PR1.3 is like going from Android 1.6 to 2.1. I doubt it, though.
However, past PR1.3... and even what PR1.3 will even be.. is nothing but a black vortex of hell. That's not a future. The only confirmed reports we have indicate no future of support for the n900 with MeeGo OR Harmattan - And Harmattan is even MAEMO, and then all the not "officially" announced but "said from sources within the company" reports we have are that we'll never get a Flash upgrade, so that (one of it's strongest selling points) is already outdated.
I'm sorry.. I've seen, and Nokia has shown, absolutely nothing with regards to a "future" for the N900. MeeGo is their future, and MeeGo on the N900 is not guaranteed to even work fully. I am having this discussion in another thread too I believe: This will be a developmental only build.. once they get it "good enough" we will be relying on the Community to support and end-user workable model. If it gets there.
Nokia is not going to make money from MeeGo on the N900.. so they have 0 incentive to continue past the initial "good enough" stages. MeeGo already includes in it's multiple framework ideas Multi-Touch support as an integral piece of the UI.. so quite clearly the N900 is not the target.
If I've helped you or you use any of my packages feel free to help me out.
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Maintaining:
pyRadio - Pandora Radio on your N900, N810 or N800!
Last edited by fatalsaint; 2010-08-06 at 15:27.