Active Topics
-
Camera phone competition March 2023 "Endless" (35)
to General by Maemish - 1 day, 23 hrs ago -
TLS 1.2 for N9 is ready (28)
to MeeGo / Harmattan by smartblu9 - 2 days ago -
Maemo repository (3)
to Community by torsen - 2 days, 16 hrs ago -
Error after installing Leste on sdcard (11)
to Maemo 7 / Leste by Maemish - 3 days, 14 hrs ago -
Introducing ubiboot N9 (multiboot OS loader) (1,393)
to Alternatives by smatkovi - 4 days, 20 hrs ago - more...
| The Following User Says Thank You to misterc For This Useful Post: | ||
|
2011-07-22
, 09:19
|
|
Banned |
Posts: 3,412 |
Thanked: 1,043 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
|
#162
|
Originally Posted by misterc
You have summed that up just about perfect and i cannot agree more with your points !.
@abill_uk
didn't follow your poll / thread so can't talk about the specifics, but could it be that the thread was also in flame war with lots of insults & low flying arguments? if so, i noticed that the admins seem to have a very low latency for that
more generally, but also applicable to this thread, i feel, a lot of those fiery arguments could be avoided if ppl could agree to disagree.
of course, that requires above all respect for the other side's point of view.
and the willingness to formulate one's opinion in decent words.
which is useless if ppl don't want to invest the time to read the post but hit the quick reply button with some non-constructive remark
this may also help avoid that arguments become personal and insults start flying, but is of course not of any help with trolls.
just my 2 cents
have fun
EDIT: can i get a receipt for my tax declaration?
This community is accessed by the world and that means anyone and everyone can join with no qualifications whatsoever, now IF that was not the case then we would have had a community based purely on members with the right qualifications for the meaning of Maemo.org and what it stood for.
That in turn would have made Nokia make the decision much easier to release in full as any developer requires the needed code for the development of Maemo and because it is a PUBLIC community, Nokia would have had problems from the off to open Maemo.
This community was wrong from the start being open as it is allowing anyone access and the very reason it has failed, the noise on here is astoundingly LOUD.
I was never prepared for the childish and humiliating backstabbing that goes on on here and could never really come to terms with it even to date, i hate it.
I held back on anything i could have done in full because of this and would have given much more than i have to help the dev's do there work but i felt it was pointless not long after i joined in feb last year.
The whole community is wrong from the top to the bottom, i feel it could have been thought out and put together lot lot more professionally.
Far too many people with varied interests beliefs and goals to unite any kind of organisation and that shows in the threads on here, instead of a common interest = the development of Maemo.
It is nothing more than a horrible battleground sometimes.
 |
|
2011-07-22
, 09:51
|
|
Posts: 1,625 |
Thanked: 998 times |
Joined on Aug 2010
|
#163
|
Originally Posted by abill_uk
can't help comparing it with Linux/GNU distributions for computers.
[...] i feel it could have been thought out and put together lot lot more professionally.
the proprietary packages are NEVER provided in the distro's repositories; NVidia, ATI (/AMD), Broadcom and many others have been providing proprietary drivers for their products for years.
of course, if NOKIA (or even TI?) don't want to support their products / chips in this way, this can't work for Maemo
EDIT: thinking of it, the kernel (provided by the Linux Foundation........) does include proprietary elements, such as network drivers aso; not sure however in how far those are reverse engineered code
EDIT+: i read somewhere that Google was in conflict with L.F. because they wanted drivers included in the general kernel that are specific to Android devices (mostly wireless drivers, if memory serves well)
where does one draw the line between OSS and... plain dumb functionality? obviously L.F. wants to stay OS compliant.
MeeGo taping into the "computer" side of (NON-)OSS etc. could benefit from that.
but that still wouldn't help us with OMAP now, would it?
as to the potential future...
i wonder in how far being more professional is what Intel is trying to achieve on MeeGo.com?
and (maybe?) the Linux Foundation providing a more professional site adminitration
[...]
It is nothing more than a horrible battleground sometimes.
Last edited by misterc; 2011-07-22 at 10:03. Reason: kernel aspects
| The Following User Says Thank You to misterc For This Useful Post: | ||
|
|
2011-07-22
, 10:02
|
|
Banned |
Posts: 3,412 |
Thanked: 1,043 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
|
#164
|
Originally Posted by misterc
Your points are indeed very valid and actually very simple to understand and whilst others do not conduct business in the same way as Nokia i feel a lot will be learned from Maemo, the way it was put together and the way it was presented to the field of development.
can't help comparing it with Linux/GNU distributions for computers.
the proprietary packages are NEVER provided in the distro's repositories; NVidia, ATI (/AMD), Broadcom and many others have been providing proprietary drivers for their products for years.
of course, if TI (or even NOKIA?) don't want to support their products / chips in this way, this can't work for Maemo
MeeGo taping into the "computer" side of (NON-)OSS etc. could benefit from that.
but that still wouldn't help us with OMAP now, would it?
as to the potential future...
i wonder in how far being more professional is what Intel is trying to achieve on MeeGo.com?
and (maybe?) the Linux Foundation providing a more professional site adminitration
copy that, alas
As you can see my posts on this thread are written in a different context simply because, and i have to say this, i am not dealing with idiots as the majority of threads on this forum seem to be abundunt with.
EDIT "but that still wouldn't help us with OMAP now, would it?"
What should have happened that clearly did not was the intergration between Intel - Nokia and public development thus the reason it all fell apart.
You know the old saying, when in rome etc.
Last edited by abill_uk; 2011-07-22 at 10:10.
|
|
2011-07-22
, 10:14
|
|
Posts: 1,625 |
Thanked: 998 times |
Joined on Aug 2010
|
#165
|
Originally Posted by abill_uk
you know the old Roman motto, right?
[...]
You know the old saying, when in rome etc.
bread, wine and... games
a political device based on human nature...
too often threads degenerate into gladiator fights 'cuz some of the ppl that come here are only looking for entertainment, not development of any sort :|
once the fight has started, ppl take sides and quickly...
but we are not adding psychoanalysis to the topics of this thread, are we?
| The Following User Says Thank You to misterc For This Useful Post: | ||
|
|
2011-07-22
, 10:17
|
|
Banned |
Posts: 3,412 |
Thanked: 1,043 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
|
#166
|
Originally Posted by misterc
And we have the perfect example right on this thread on the tags !, i made a typo and it has been posted as a tag, your point proven !.
you know the old Roman motto, right?
bread, wine and... games
a political device based on human nature...
too often threads degenerate into gladiator fights 'cuz some of the ppl that come here are only looking for entertainment, not development of any sort :|
once the fight has started, ppl take sides and quickly...
but we are not adding psychoanalysis to the topics of this thread, are we?
PS NO i will not correct my typo because i am human and we all make mistakes, only some do not feel the need to pick them up and throw them !.
Last edited by abill_uk; 2011-07-22 at 10:19.
|
|
2011-07-22
, 10:23
|
|
Posts: 1,625 |
Thanked: 998 times |
Joined on Aug 2010
|
#167
|
Originally Posted by abill_uk
maybe MeeGo was NOKIA's conclusion that Maemo was a business failure?
[...]i feel a lot will be learned from Maemo, the way it was put together and the way it was presented to the field of development.[...]
over a year ago they already had concluded that there is no way (for NOKIA) to salvage Maemo, thus they left it & took anything they could save to MeeGo & are now making a new start there?
"FIRE IN THE HALL!!!" ¦-))))))))))
|
|
2011-07-22
, 10:34
|
|
Banned |
Posts: 3,412 |
Thanked: 1,043 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
|
#168
|
Originally Posted by misterc
Then stupid decision simply because devs available on here are far more capable than Nokia could ever be so why be greedy for whatever reasoning and hold on to something your never going to further develop, holding the rights and giving it away for further FREE development is the way to go.
maybe MeeGo was NOKIA's conclusion that Maemo was a business failure?
over a year ago they already had concluded that there is no way (for NOKIA) to salvage Maemo, thus they left it & took anything they could save to MeeGo & are now making a new start there?
"FIRE IN THE HALL!!!" ¦-))))))))))
stskeeps was clever in that he knew devs would follow him from Maemo.org knowing full well he needed them,that is the reason for his "leaving thread" THAT is a clever move lol.
Last edited by abill_uk; 2011-07-22 at 10:38.
|
|
2011-07-22
, 11:00
|
|
Posts: 1,625 |
Thanked: 998 times |
Joined on Aug 2010
|
#169
|
Originally Posted by abill_uk
not greedy, simply (business) rational.
Then stupid decision simply because devs available on here are far more capable than Nokia could ever be so why be greedy for whatever reasoning and hold on to something your never going to further develop, holding the rights and giving it away for further FREE development is the way to go.
they have invested for about 5 years in Maemo.org
now they have moved on and have closed the case.
remains to be seen for how long they will still support Maemo.org; possibly an open question, depending on how the community continues supporting "dumb" 770, N8x0 and N900 users and thus providing NOKIA a service (indirectly)?
but they don't want to have an OSS Maemo 5.5 / 2011.x competing with their new development & thus spreading dev ressources, maybe?
why
well, like you concluded too, there is a lesson to be learned from the Maemo.org business case; NOKIA learned it and decided that it was easier to make a new start then to try to fix it.
can't blame them on that, now, can you?
stskeeps was clever in that he knew devs would follow him from Maemo.org knowing full well he needed them,that is the reason for his "leaving thread" THAT is a clever move lol.
i finally bought my 1st N900/MID barely a year ago, even after NOKIA had already left it
but maybe you weren't the only who "hold back" because of the "" atmosphere"" (or whatever you want to call it...)
maybe stskeeps felt the same & agreed with NOKIA that it was easier / more effective to make a new start then trying to fix "old stuff" (no offence)?
EDIT: if you think of it, what NOKIA is doing is that not much different from what RedHat is doing.
support the OSS community (sort of, @ least with devices & apparently some infrastructure @ MeeGo (?)) but then using that for a devices they sell, with parts of code which are #NOT# open-source.
RH wouldn't be able to sell many server boxes if companies could get exactly the same stuff from CentOS (or Oracle w/ unbreakable Linux)
actually Oracle is becoming a problem (they have the money to replace the parts RH doesn't want to share & compete on the same market, (database) server market)
thus RH tried to tighten their grip on "their code"
maybe, NOKIA is getting dead serious about MeeGo devices?
Last edited by misterc; 2011-07-22 at 11:33. Reason: becoming more like... RH (?)
| The Following User Says Thank You to misterc For This Useful Post: | ||
|
|
2011-07-22
, 13:00
|
|
Banned |
Posts: 3,412 |
Thanked: 1,043 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
|
#170
|
There was something wrong in the creation of Maemo.org right from the beggining and i will try to explain why i say this,
if Maemo.org was to be the official "further" development of Maemo then why was it not seen that closed components were going to create massive problems right from the off so why was it allowed to go from there?.
Many people do not realise that to write an os or implement changes to an os the developer(s) MUST have access to source otherwise it is a pointless excersize, so what happened ? i will explain very easily,
developers set to work on apps etc and then submitted them for approval but what level of approval? to see if the app actually run without conflicts?
whilst all this was going on Nokia must have realised just how this was going to end up especially when it seen all the conflicts and problems occuring due to conflicting code that just did not fit in with the os, and in some cases so serious the device would shut down due to overwriting of critical code.
Now realise Nokia or someone responsible for the creation of Maemo.org made a huge mistake in allowing it to function as it did knowing full well the consequences of holding back essential component drivers which has been explained away as legal crap, not allowed to reverse engineer?, it got to a point when i thought oh my god this is going bad very bad, this was round about a month or so before the last Maemo update from Nokia PR1.3.
At that point there was a multitude of NOFIX and looking within the threads reading all the software conflicts occuring i just knew it was bound for disaster but for some strange reason everyone carried on battling with closed source.
At this point after trying to point out on here the problems, all i got was shot down in flames as if i was insane (http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=52788) this is just one of the threads i started way back over a year ago ! and if you look at my history you will see many, all to do with the problems of the N900.
Now we are at the gate of closure and all because the wrong people dealt with the opening of Maemo.org in my opinion because not one was obviously a software or hardware engineer who could visulise what would happen because of closed components.
It is therefore my opinion Nokia never supported Maemo.org at all but in fact made sure it would bring huge problems for Maemo.
Now i would love to know from the council just what will happen to Maemo.org, is it to stay open ? is it to change name or is it to be shut down?.
if Maemo.org was to be the official "further" development of Maemo then why was it not seen that closed components were going to create massive problems right from the off so why was it allowed to go from there?.
Many people do not realise that to write an os or implement changes to an os the developer(s) MUST have access to source otherwise it is a pointless excersize, so what happened ? i will explain very easily,
developers set to work on apps etc and then submitted them for approval but what level of approval? to see if the app actually run without conflicts?
whilst all this was going on Nokia must have realised just how this was going to end up especially when it seen all the conflicts and problems occuring due to conflicting code that just did not fit in with the os, and in some cases so serious the device would shut down due to overwriting of critical code.
Now realise Nokia or someone responsible for the creation of Maemo.org made a huge mistake in allowing it to function as it did knowing full well the consequences of holding back essential component drivers which has been explained away as legal crap, not allowed to reverse engineer?, it got to a point when i thought oh my god this is going bad very bad, this was round about a month or so before the last Maemo update from Nokia PR1.3.
At that point there was a multitude of NOFIX and looking within the threads reading all the software conflicts occuring i just knew it was bound for disaster but for some strange reason everyone carried on battling with closed source.
At this point after trying to point out on here the problems, all i got was shot down in flames as if i was insane (http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=52788) this is just one of the threads i started way back over a year ago ! and if you look at my history you will see many, all to do with the problems of the N900.
Now we are at the gate of closure and all because the wrong people dealt with the opening of Maemo.org in my opinion because not one was obviously a software or hardware engineer who could visulise what would happen because of closed components.
It is therefore my opinion Nokia never supported Maemo.org at all but in fact made sure it would bring huge problems for Maemo.
Now i would love to know from the council just what will happen to Maemo.org, is it to stay open ? is it to change name or is it to be shut down?.
 |
| Tags |
| goodbye nokia, maemo.org, troll party, winding down |
«
Previous Thread
|
Next Thread
»
|
All times are GMT. The time now is 10:11.
didn't follow your poll / thread so can't talk about the specifics, but could it be that the thread was also in flame war with lots of insults & low flying arguments? if so, i noticed that the admins seem to have a very low latency for that
more generally, but also applicable to this thread, i feel, a lot of those fiery arguments could be avoided if ppl could agree to disagree.
of course, that requires above all respect for the other side's point of view.
which is useless if ppl don't want to invest the time to read the post but hit the quick reply button with some non-constructive remark
this may also help avoid that arguments become personal and insults start flying, but is of course not of any help with trolls.
just my 2 cents
have fun
EDIT: can i get a receipt for my tax declaration?
Last edited by misterc; 2011-07-22 at 09:03.