Community Council Thread - Questions, Solutions and Grievances - Page 17 - maemo.org

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	misterc	2012-06-27 , 21:29
	Posts: 1,625 \| Thanked: 998 times \| Joined on Aug 2010	#161

Originally Posted by woody14619

Is that you Donkey?! I can't see in here! Go get Puss in Boots; and tell him to bring a lantern and a shovel. Whatever this is, it's pretty deep in here!

darn! who blew out the candle again ?!?

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ajalkane	2012-06-27 , 21:44
Posts: 1,313 \| Thanked: 2,978 times \| Joined on Jun 2011 @ Finland	#162

Originally Posted by Dave999

That's the tricky part with hacking. You lock down devices and noone official is really gonna give you a device and you can't win it either since nokia won't allowit/needing in store.

Why do they deserve devices while others don't?
Again, that is the tricky question.

You're partly answering yourself with that. I think there's plenty of developers in our community deserving a device, who didn't get one (there was only a limited number of them).

But the big outcry on this topic seems to be about two developers. If we, as a community, feel like they should get a device, it's really not a big amount of money each of us would need to put in a pool together to get them one.

I'm ready to donate (again) if such a pool was made.

I just feel this kind of bickering against the council achieves nothing, and hurts on their real tasks ahead.

We can concentrate on the goals or the procedures. I say let the politiciancs worry about the procedures, and we should aim towards the goal that we want. If it's a device to these two, we can do it by small donations from each member.

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	woody14619	2012-06-27 , 22:20
	Posts: 1,455 \| Thanked: 3,309 times \| Joined on Dec 2009 @ Rochester, NY	#163

Originally Posted by gerbick

I think all I wanted was a bit more transparency in how things went down. SD69 and you have been the epitome of that thus far.

That is the goal I had walking into Council. I'm walking a line right now between presenting enough information to make the community happy without enforcing 100% openness that would cause progress to stop on anything for fear of having anything said twisted and thrown against them later.

Originally Posted by gerbick

To have one person know that he was going to wait until the last second to request a device and still have a say in the proceedings is a conflict of interest.

Again, understand two things:

No Council member was allowed to vote on/for themselves.
The idea that Estel was not participating was a misinterpretation by one Council member.

It wasn't a plot or plan where a choice was "changed", or where someone had input where others did not. You're still holding to this like it was a plot, while I can assure you it was not. One member of Council, possibly two, had this misunderstanding. (One has not weighed in as he's on holiday this week.) But the overall issue is still there, regardless of if it was 3 of 5 or 4 of 5 running.

And I do think your idea of pulling in past Council in such times is a great idea. There have been several good ideas, which I will be confirming in the next meeting as an amendment to the wiki to clarify and codify this into place for future Council.

I also may have another idea, which I need to confer with Council on before I speak on it publicly.

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gerbick	2012-06-27 , 22:33
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Originally Posted by woody14619

It wasn't a plot or plan where a choice was "changed", or where someone had input where others did not. You're still holding to this like it was a plot, while I can assure you it was not. One member of Council, possibly two, had this misunderstanding. (One has not weighed in as he's on holiday this week.) But the overall issue is still there, regardless of if it was 3 of 5 or 4 of 5 running.

I do not think it was a plot. I think that no Council member should be voting if they're capable of being rewarded. It makes things look bad even when it's not. It's the appearance that they were able to influence the vote to benefit themselves, that's the problem.

That's my point. That's a perceived conflict of interest.

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	dumpystig	2012-06-27 , 22:39
	Posts: 464 \| Thanked: 338 times \| Joined on Feb 2011 @ UK, Northwest	#165

Jeez.

I'm off again

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Arie	2012-06-27 , 22:53
Posts: 1,539 \| Thanked: 1,604 times \| Joined on Oct 2011 @ With my N9	#166

Originally Posted by woody14619

To be clear, this is an estimation of what I think it would cost, based on what I know. I do not know how much Nokia is paying for services, or what said services will cost in the final analysis.

I suspect it will not be a huge amount though, especially if we are paying for just services and not people to maintain them (which Nokia currently does). I suspect the maintainers will be volunteers, not dissimilar to how moderation is handled here.

Either way it's valuable information and moving in the right direction.

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	misterc	2012-06-28 , 00:33
	Posts: 1,625 \| Thanked: 998 times \| Joined on Aug 2010	#167

Originally Posted by woody14619

That is the goal I had walking into Council. I'm walking a line right now between presenting enough information to make the community happy without enforcing 100% openness that would cause progress to stop on anything for fear of having anything said twisted and thrown against them later.

[...]

why would you be afraid of telling the truth?
like i posted before, no matter what you post

some will deny or question it
others (or the same) will twist it...

if you posted what you faithfully believe to be true, it shouldn't matter.

then again

in the long run we are all dead
-- John Maynard Keynes

if NOKIA files bankruptcy in 2013, it won't really matter anymore what the truth may have been.

on the other hand, if there is another CA and of course CC in spring / summer 2013, we will hopefully be able to look back on this thread and...

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	ZogG	2012-06-28 , 09:40
	Posts: 1,389 \| Thanked: 1,857 times \| Joined on Feb 2010 @ Israel	#168

Originally Posted by gerbick

I do not think it was a plot. I think that no Council member should be voting if they're capable of being rewarded. It makes things look bad even when it's not. It's the appearance that they were able to influence the vote to benefit themselves, that's the problem.

That's my point. That's a perceived conflict of interest.

That was the point of us ( people who questioned) all the time, though after some time the other question was — a reaction and the way we got answers. E.g. personal attacks, confusions, not all info from some of the councils.

And if ordinary member act like that, he has no excuse, but still it's that person behavior, while for any one from council it would be connected to all council.

And i still don't think Estel deserve to continue with the way he acts. For example he calls me loser and says "we don't give a f#" to me on IRC, as well as calling me names. And he explains that it's slovacian temper to talk like that and it's the people who overreact. But than again when you see the way he talks to people he sees as authority in a totally different tone. I know that kind of people and i think everyone does.

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don.edri	2012-06-28 , 10:34
Posts: 138 \| Thanked: 152 times \| Joined on Jun 2012 @ Switzerland/Zurich	#169

Originally Posted by ZogG

"he explains that it's slovacian temper to talk like that"

Small offtopic, but couldn't help myself. First of all, slavic temper, not slovacian - and as I'm the same nationality as Estel, I must say that I strongly disagree that it's a common trait among us :P

Last edited by don.edri; 2012-06-28 at 10:37.

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don_falcone	2012-06-28 , 11:15
Posts: 1,523 \| Thanked: 1,997 times \| Joined on Jul 2011 @ not your mom's FOSS basement	#170

Originally Posted by don.edri

Small offtopic, but couldn't help myself. First of all, slavic temper, not slovacian - and as I'm the same nationality as Estel, I must say that I strongly disagree that it's a common trait among us :P

Dito. I worked with developers from .PL, .SK, .CZ, .RU etc. but this seems a special case...