Well MWC this year they seemed to indicate a 2nd phone sometime in 2015, they didn't say what part of 2015. Would be great if we hear something at one of those conferences and if they can still make a 2015 release.

i, like the majority of the population, am a happy-snapper.

i had an compact ultrazoom back in the day, it still works but hasn't been picked up in four years or more.

I still like taking photographs even tho I don't like photography enough to consider lumping a dslr around.

a decent phone camera, good enough to take non-grainy and non-blurry photos in a range of light conditions, is more than sufficient, but because it is all we have it [must] meet those needs.

"hi" *from the 85%*

A transation for the remaining 15%:

"I, like the majority of the population, am a dummy.

I had a screwdriver back in the day, it still works but hasn't been picked up in four years or more.

I still like assembling the odd flat-pack furnture even though I don't like DIY enough to consider going to the garage and fetching the toolcase.

A decent hammer, good enough to bang the screw in is more than sufficient, but because it is all I have it [must] meet those needs."

I have the money ready for a Jphone ll. Why does jolla preventing me from using them...

So you don't even bother to read my argument. Well, then have fun with your phone camera.

No srlsy: I explained that a DSLR will always be better which is why I use it most and I said that I don't have anything against phone cameras and even us them as an addition, so you don't need to explain all of this.

Because their communication is **** and they don't hold on to their promises and even when they deliver it's beta half-baked **** and not good quality.

(note: this is pure sarcasm because I know that would've been the answer by some critics in the community of course that's not how I think about Jolla)

Latterly, yes. But what you originally said was: I still don't get what's up with all this camera craze on phones. The point is that the majority of the market are not like you (and the depression in sales of both compact digital cameras and DSLRs would seem to confirm this)

Here are my most modest wishes for Jolla II, not so much expectations as I quit hoping and expecting and will try to be happy with the toys I own today.


To Keep and improve upon: battery swappable for actual spares, battery life standard / , SD card slot.

To vastly improve:

-optional hardware keyboard with mouse / track pad on the back. Current virtual keyboard is amongst the best but...

-lack of FM transmitter: not all cars have BT or Aux and even so!

-HDMI because the more computer like the device, the more use for a reliable and wide spread external display connector.

-pictures and video quality (ref. is 808)

-loudspeaker or better, loudspeaker set (ref. are 808 and N900)

-audio recording microphone system (ref. 808)

-general HW quality

-more integrated IM / telecom protocols (secure jabber video / voice and SIP, Tox, whatever sets you free in telecom world without having to weigh your words.

Software: Keep going right on trick.

- fix inconsistencies in interface,
- add features per app rights assignment system ,
- optional integrated firewall GUInterface to provide intuitive security options

(security first – it is not only a paranoid nerd's concern)

-Where is the native Firefox Browser?

-enable NFC initiated pairing with BT devices (ref. 808, Samsung devices)


Extra's:
-Offer supported peripherals. I2C is fine but “unite the 2 halves”?

Unless there is some substantial backing of the concept in that slogan by Jolla selling ready made hardware I suggest for next time to not release the idea outside the marketing brainstorm room please.

-if a resistive multi-touch screen is not possible, then the return of low power display mode screen would be nice welcome but no Pentile matrix please. Resolution can be a good compromise between web readability and battery life as is the case in current Jolla.



Rethink target customer profile: Who is Jolla trying to sell to? I expect to feel that I need / want the device , not just support out of sympathy. They need to show clear direction where this is heading or I 'll be skipping the next round.


-Users that favour the less closed Linux based mobile OS may be more than charmed by Sailfish but at the same time those customers have already been spoiled with good hardware quality (N900 / N9) including many integrated hardware and software features that Jolla 1 simply lacks.

-the principle users → Finland, Europe, we support local products first → OK, problably succes in Finland?


-Users that don't care the OS or are unaware of alternatives to iOS or Android and are used to purchase based a telephone based on looks and hardware specs.

→ I think Jolla does not hve a device to please this group as they will not purchase it because of the hardware specs, the looks, and if they do discover the software is harder to install or get by.

-Users that go mid end want to invest little to enjoy the funny / useful apps everyone else is using. → Jolla somewhat accomodates this group with the Android compatibility but the device is not yet cheap enough. Maybe they could sell the current design throughout 2015 and 2016 for about 200 USD allongside a Jolla 2 Pro.

For that high end device Jolla could choose the best possible and feature complete HW platform for the next 2-3 years and focus on developing the software.

Of course in the meantime they could partner with Fairphone (Android OS = fair?? ) , Neo900 and port Sailfish OS to Nexus'es along the way for spreading the OS and offering budget options.

As a principle user and Maemo fan, I would pay a higherer price for a Jolla with vintage Nokia qualiy + shock resistance, waterproofness and the peace of mind that my resistant screen does not shatter unlike the capactivie glass ones.



What I like about the Jolla: the fluent OS is certainly a gem of software development. And of course the battery life.

It's good at multitasking and does so with flair: as a demo to show how smooth this goes in terms of visuals: one could play the 3D game Pinball Arcade, with a music video from HTML5 in the background, swipe to mix in game graphics with playing youtube video or to check time on the desktop clock on while still keeping an eye on the game.

See at http://1drv.ms/1FvGSPe

The current Jolla is ,despite the in Android terms modest hardware platform, surely the relative fastest all round mobile device I have ever owned, one reason the more to set this very promising operating system free!

Although the hardware was surely not love at first sight upon unboxing I then learned to appreciate the OS a lot, and even the virtual keyboard that is faster than some HW ones as long as you stick to SMS and the basic phone actions. But later the hardware started to annoy me especially after a long day camera session.


HW issues encountered:

Jolla care:
-camera lens cover spots
-broken speaker
-antenna GSM data broken
-SIM card error issue
Self serviced:
-loose battery issue - pressure reboot: trick with paper.
Missing


I was one of the first people to have given kudos to Jolla for the USB port that is strongly encapsulated, proving Jolla has listened to N900 community grievances.

Software issue encountered (only the worst one):

One time I missed hours of business due to device showing 3G and coverage bars but not receiving any SMS or phone calls (reboot fixed issue) I suspect it has done this before and will do it again - not heavily tweaked , even no developper mode.



The Camera – is good enough? No, it isn't.

During the period in time when mobile phones were only expected to grow smaller and lighter and offer some kind of IR / USB / BT modem option for connecting to a laptop, I have never dreamt about having a camera in a mobile phone.

Not significantly more than a beer opener, sigarette lighter, alcohol tester, compass, GPS, IR remote, Geiger counter, pheromone tracker, binoculars or microscope.. you name your favourite add-on.
But at some point inevitably I had to buy a camera integrated into the next mobile phone (6230i).
That's the point where the phone effectively also becomes a camera and I started using it from time to time.
The camera feature prove more fun than anticipated, partially due to the need to compensate lack of quality with better attention to the overal composition in order to get a shot worth keeping.

After the E65, E51 and E71, the N900 was my first camera that was not too bad to be used as a standin for the holiday pictures camera.

Because the modern phone had become more and more camera oriented and I effectively used the camera, it became subject to the digital camera update law that says that the next upgrade should be significantly better or at least extend features.


With the N8 and 808 it was the excellent camera feature (compared to stagnated N9 camera tech) that lurred me into taking a step back OS wise into using Symbian^3

Back to the Jolla camera: whatever you call it being bad, not that bad, or sufficient, compared to the set standard originated from Finland it is just a major step down back into 2008 – 2009.

If we all continue saying we don't need stuff that delivers top quality or argue that other persons' wishes are irrelevant because there is dedicated device x or y that does better than our Swiss Army knife pocketable solution we will end up with a nice display full of publicity banners.

In 2012 a camera has taken place and not in Japan this time. It was not a revolution but just a logical evolution of a long stagnated design of the compact camera. And it dit not originate from Japan or USA but Finland.

The whole tag line “its not all Megapixels that matters” has been reversed and half of the picture taking world isn't informed about and most likely never will be until apple recycles the idea.

For now Microsoft will let the concept die an early death and I can only hope for a 2nd battery + Pureview camera add-on second half to complete Jolla for camera enthousiasts. Something that looks a little bit like the rediculous camera grip that needed to compensate for the thin design of the Lumia 1020. Everybody happy, the document / barcode scanners can Sail along with the mediocre 8Mpix generic Chinacam and the demanding photographers have their own option.



Here is a little word to people who clearly don't want to see mobile phone camera to advance as it did untill 2012.

I do own DSLR's and a collection of top glass and I confirm that a (relatively new) DSLR is better in cases when:

-you happen to have it with you, ready to shoot
-fitted with the right lens for the situation (zoom lenses are nice but still compromises for somebody always on the lookout for superior quality
-you shoot static things or creatures that are not easily alarmed by the appearance of a bigger camera
-your subject is only willing to pose in front of a large camera with (preferably white coated) big glass
-your salary depends on the publishing quality of the pictures and you cannot afford to miss a critical shot.
-you need the very best low light performance, easiest and fastest hardware controls, fastest between shots speeds, tracking autofocus etc..
-you are prepared to spend computer time to get the very best out of every shot through post processing
-you are not too skilful in shooting directly in JPG and need the safety need of RAW shooting in order to post-process away a few stops of underexposure or white balance.
-you like unlimited gear expenditure options instead
-when you can't afford work as a photographer to be interrupted roughly by incoming phone calls on your tool off choice

A mobile phone is sometimes better

-when it is as often happens the only option available
-less intrusive (silent and discreet)
-post processing and cloud saving on device - extendible software options
-light and pocketable, and low profile you are not the person with the camera
-mostly features video recording options which many DSLR lack unless you have the latest
-costs half the price of a decent DSLR lens
Etc.. see endless discussions elsewhere.


In short, we are talking about very complementary tools and if you like photography you would love to have the best possible performers in your pocket or bagpack at all time.

For example last weekend I was dragging along a PV 808 and a Nikon D700. That did not mean that the PV 808 was jobless.
So when the Nikon is fitted (for the occasion with an old market 15.00 USD 135mm 2.8 manual Tamron) for shooting style like on the left picture, you need even more extra heavy gear to take that quick wide angle overview shot (PV808) on the right.

http://1drv.ms/ZMjCvr

Vistaus' theory on phone camera quality not being worth the effort was already stirring some counter reactions and hereby I have recycled his phrase about phone camera's into an argument saying why HW keyboard style phones are also not needed:


Same goes for keyboards, large screens etc:

“There are good hardware keyboards like on the N900, E7 or BB Q10. But still not as good as providing a laptop experience (except for the N900 / E7), let alone finetuning, installing different OS or RAM and HD at will or having a big comfortable display. And those are facts. I'm not against HWKB smart phones. Like I said: I use my laptop *most* of the time, which means the other times I use a smart phones (the last 7 months Jolla). But it also means I'm not a fan of HWKB smart phones so to me it doesn't really matter whether it gets upgraded or not. Fact is that a laptop will always be better, no matter how you look at it.”


So, there you have it, away with the keyboard and the camera!


Now let' s think together, what else we can leave out of our list of expectations to support Jolla?


I simply conclude that limiting ourselves to what Jolla offers right now is accepting no progress as just fine.


Jolla, I am greatful for your continuation to develop a viable mobile OS but please get it on with the keyboards and the camera's, the IR, HDMI, FM, BT v5.0 Firebridge, Galileo etc.. Communicate with your fans, make a proposal of possible HW options, get some feedback not from investors but from real users.


I really tried to support the Jolla project, but for the moment it is just another nice OS like Harmattan that is trapped in a mediocre device.

A device for which in presence of my other gadgets, I can find little use.
And I can't give it away or sell it out of fear to be held responsible for HW failures later (you probably knew... Been there done that with the same OEM style Pre 3 that went x times back to HP)

Apart from trying to be unlike and waiting for the day that somebody looking over my shoulder will ask: Wow, which phone is that? Can your really just swipe between applications like that? And then feel inspired to purchase a Jolla and motivate other people to do the same so that Jolla can continue growing and finally build the device I personally would love to use.

For the time being the Jolla's camera quality and the lack of text input convenience in terminal or webforms makes that it just sees limited use as basic phone, for some surfing or reading a book or just swipe away and feel amazed that someting like this even exists.

"So, there you have it, away with the keyboard and the camera! "

Again: even in what you quoted, I clearly said that I don't have anything against phone cameras so I'm not saying the camera should go. I do use phone camera for quick shots or something I wanna share on the go to Twitter or Instagram.

And a hw keyboard shouldn't be done away it at all! I miss my HP Pre 3 keyboard on the Jolla phone, which is why I can't wait for TOHKBREV2 to be finished

Understood, I just ask to be careful to advocate for the "just good enough solutions". Keyboard (and input in general) and later camera solutions went backward, not forward in evolution.

The Pre3 , which I owned surprisingly had no virtual alphanumeric keyboard, which is even more hard to understand. They trusted their generic hardware to be sturdy enough for millions of SMS, right?