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Poll: Which NFP name(s) do you prefer?
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Which NFP name(s) do you prefer?

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misterc is offline misterc
2012-09-21 , 23:01
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#171
Originally Posted by woody14619 View Post
In order for this to proceed, legal papers must be filed, and must be in place before work can start. [...]
great job!
chill out
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2012-09-21 , 23:15
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#172
Originally Posted by woody14619 View Post
[...] Or that Nokia is not renewing it's contract to keep the servers running past December. [...]
i'm sure this has been told many times over elsewhere, but are the repositories included in the same contracts?
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2012-09-21 , 23:20
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#173
Originally Posted by Win7Mac View Post
This thread started on Sept 3rd...
Claiming almost 2 weeks later that it's too late now is... well, I leave that to you.
2 weeks my ***! This thread is only 2 weeks old, but it started back in August, in the bylaw thread. And this "new name" has been out there for over 2 months, not 2 weeks.

June 22nd: http://maemo.org/community/council/c...-june_22-2012/
June 23rd: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=85061
June 29th: http://maemo.org/community/council/c...-june_29-2012/
July 6th: http://maemo.org/community/council/c...ting-july_6th/ <-- first note of name.
July 10th: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/mae...ly/005552.html <-- name appears in bylaws.
July 13th: http://maemo.org/community/council/c...-july_13-2012/ Name
July 27th: http://maemo.org/community/council/c...uly_27th-2012/ repeated
August 3rd: http://maemo.org/community/council/c...ng-aug_3-2012/ regularly
August 10th: http://maemo.org/community/council/c...ust_10th-2012/ throughout
August 17th: http://maemo.org/community/council/c...ust_17th-2012/ this
August 24th: http://maemo.org/community/council/b...donfoundation/ time-frame.
September 3rd: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=86556 <-- this thread starts

So do you see the issue now?

This is not "new". This has been around, quite literally, for months. Only in the last few days, 2 weeks before we needed to file papers to make this real, and spend the money (out of my pocket, btw) to make this thing go, did anyone say "hmm... I don't really like the name..."

It's like being engaged to someone, setting up the wedding, walking down the isle, and the groom going "you know... I really wanted a blond, not a brunette. Can we dye your hair? What do you all think? Shouldn't I be able to marry a blonde?!" Now is not the time.... The time was before, or well after.
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2012-09-21 , 23:21
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#174
Originally Posted by misterc View Post
i'm sure this has been told many times over elsewhere, but are the repositories included in the same contracts?
To my understanding, yes.

PS... Nominations started. Have you checked the wiki page at all yet?
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jalyst is offline jalyst
2012-09-22 , 03:56
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#175
Originally Posted by woody14619 View Post
In order for this to proceed, legal papers must be filed, and must be in place before work can start. We noted several times, both in the bylaw threads, the Ask the Council thread, the meetings, and even in one of the drafts of the bylaws themselves, that we would need to nail this stuff down by the 17th at the latest. As things are, delays moved that to yesterday.
Yes & I was well aware that you had noted that, but what you didn't note in the by-law & ask-the-council (at least I think, haven't followed it heavily) thread is WHY this was imperative.
I asked several times if there could be any sort of leeway, as even if I had started the poll after a wk of feedback, we didn't know what sort of trend would arise, and how long the poll may need etc.

The filings are underway, and the paper trail started. If we had put off filing any longer the paperwork would not be completed and filed with the proper offices by the time the elections finished. As it stands, it's likely there will be a delay between the Board being elected and it being able to actually actbecause of paperwork delays that have already happened.
Now this is a central piece of info. that would've taken all of 5-mins to explain in the thread way, way, back.
We were being told as early as the 11th that it was "too late", but we were not being given any explanation beyond that.

Changing the organizational name after the filings are in place is possible, it just costs money to do so. There's also the option of adding a name, like a DBA (Does Business As), which will probably be the easier thing to do. For that reason, I say let the poll take it's course. We can always add or adopt a new name.
Again, another thing that was asked countless times, I'm guessing you guys finally covered all this in the meeting? Thank-you!
Does that mean we can now take our time & add some extra names, because some users have already expressed annoyance that none of the candidates are suitable.
Plus there is already some question over whether we can use some names, including Hildon, so they may have to be removed.

As for "just waiting 6 more days", tell me: How do you think Nokia and others will react to the Board when it says "Sorry, we can't negotiate with you for another 6 days because of filing delays from when we were deciding on a name"? That's pretty sad.
Again, stemming from not knowing your 2nd paragraph above...

It's also mildly frustrating to push for something for several months, only to have someone object to something at the very last minute, and demand more time to resolve it. Especially when after noting we have limited time, it took over a week to commit to doing a poll, and two more days to revised the OP, review that, and start the poll! For what? So we'd see the results point to the original choice?
Within a wk of the thread starting it was already being suggested that it could not proceed, many questions where asked from that point for clarification, zilch.
So from that point on I remained in limbo as to what to do, as I could never get any straight answer.
After no response for about another wk & constant pressing by others, I decided to properly compose the OP, allow another 34hrs for revisions/input, & then start the poll.
And there was no clear indication throughout the course of the thread that Hildon would be the most popular choice.
In fact, I'd say Aeolos (or one of it's variants) would probably have had a stronger showing than it is, if it wasn't being split between Aeris.
But Aeris was a suggestion with at least some explanation, so I was bound to also include it in the Poll.

You say we didn't communicate this, but we have. We've been talking about this for months. It's been on the Mailing List, it's been in the weekly IRC meetings, it's been in the Blog posts of those meetings, and in the TMO posts related to that. We even made additional posts, and had moderators make them sticky to increase their visibility. I ask you, what more would you prefer we had done? Send you a personal invitation to comment on each thing we've discussed via a PM or e-mail? It's not like this was in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet, stuck in a disused lavatory, with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the Leopard'.
Oh please, I'm not intensely following every single iota of community progress over the past 6mth or even 3mth, that's why you're a Councillor & I'm not.
I have been following the relevant threads closely though, & constantly posting questions asking councillors to clarify themselves, & PM'ing the odd councillor, I think that's enough.
It wasn't like councillors were too busy elsewhere, there was always at least one actively partaking here, but critical posts were constantly missed -bizarrely enough.

Sorry... But you need to take some responsibility for this on yourself. Democracy requires of it's constituency a very minimal amount of effort to stay informed about what's going on. If you don't expend that minimal effort, it's hardly fair to complain about it.
That's just it, I very well did, I was well aware of what was happening in theory, I was simply trying the whole time to get some feedback on whether things could be modified somewhat, as we clearly were going to be too pressed for time.
It took so long to get any sort of feedback that I eventually just had to proceed regardless, by then it was ridiculously late, but i figured maybe with some direct dialogue in the next meeting, we could FINALLY sort something out.
I readily concede I could've/should've just pushed ahead after the 1st wk instead of letting it drag well past the 2nd, but I was not operating in a vacuum, I was trying to get answers but hitting a brick wall.
Last edited by jalyst; 2012-09-23 at 09:11. Reason: typo
 
jalyst is offline jalyst
2012-09-22 , 05:04
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#176
Originally Posted by woody14619 View Post
This is not "new". This has been around, quite literally, for months. Only in the last few days, 2 weeks before we needed to file papers to make this real, and spend the money (out of my pocket, btw) to make this thing go, did anyone say "hmm... I don't really like the name..."
Well, I never said anything like: "Hmm, I don't really like that name..."
I just casually mentioned at one point "Why it?" As it didn't seem fully representative of the community as-a-whole, it was but one of other things I was addressing in the by-laws.
The problem was it had always been a tentative name by your own admissions, you even conceded it wasn't exactly decided via a wide-ranging consensus, hence you reluctantly (understandably) agreed to a thread/poll.
Had it been executed that way many months ago, maybe we wouldn't be having this problem, easy to say with hindsight of course

It's like being engaged to someone, setting up the wedding, walking down the isle, and the groom going "you know... I really wanted a blond, not a brunette. Can we dye your hair? What do you all think? Shouldn't I be able to marry a blonde?!" Now is not the time.... The time was before, or well after.
I love the humour though, I must admit, given me a few chuckles already....
Some (most?) of us don't live/breathe the governance side of things, + I've mostly dropped-off in frequency at TMO over the last several mths (too busy IRL).
And I'd like to stress again, I am very appreciative of all the work that those who are councillors (or will be) have done or will do.
It just would've been nice if there was a bit more responsiveness along the way, that would've saved a fair bit of confusion/drama.
Last edited by jalyst; 2012-09-23 at 08:59. Reason: typo
 
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2012-09-22 , 09:14
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#177
Originally Posted by woody14619 View Post
To my understanding, yes.
including MeeGo / Harmattan repositories ?!?

Originally Posted by woody14619 View Post
PS... Nominations started. Have you checked the wiki page at all yet?
done...
@ least as far as i could without concrete data; will try to track down the mailing lists & all...
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Last edited by misterc; 2012-09-22 at 09:18. Reason: N9 repos ?!?
 

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2012-09-22 , 09:21
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#178
Originally Posted by woody14619 View Post
[...]

It's like being engaged to someone, setting up the wedding, walking down the isle, and the groom going "you know... I really wanted a blond, not a brunette. Can we dye your hair? What do you all think? Shouldn't I be able to marry a blonde?!" Now is not the time.... The time was before, or well after.
In the long run we are all dead...
¦-))))))))
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2012-09-22 , 11:07
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#179
Originally Posted by woody14619 View Post
Originally Posted by misterc View Post
i'm sure this has been told many times over elsewhere, but are the repositories included in the same contracts?
To my understanding, yes.
[...]
could you please confirm this?
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Last edited by misterc; 2012-09-22 at 11:10. Reason: added repository.maemo.org
 

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2012-09-24 , 20:54
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#180
Originally Posted by misterc View Post
could you please confirm this?
Let me make sure we're talking about the same things:
I'm talking about the contract Nokia has with service providers to keep the lights on. Those contracts, to my understanding, for ALL services related to Maemo/MeeGo, terminate at the end of the year, regardless of provider.

It is also my understanding that currently one group has administrative access to all of the above mentioned services. I do not know the layout of those services internally, nor their physical or network locations. What you're noting is that their network locations (and possibly their physical locations) are varied, which very well may be. But they are all serviced by one group.

This is not at all uncommon in the world of networking. It would not seem odd to me at all to see a high-bandwidth service (like a repository) placed in a different physical location where data access is faster or cheaper. It also makes sense from a standpoint of redundancy to have systems in separate locations, allowing the others to serve as backup locations and/or fail-over systems. For all we know, these servers could be running in Nokia office complexes across several countries.

I'm hoping we'll know more about all of this very soon. But right now, what we do know we're happy to share. What we don't we'll be sure to ask about.
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