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Cue is offline Cue
2011-03-13 , 01:25
Posts: 840 | Thanked: 823 times | Joined on Nov 2009
#1791
Originally Posted by mishmich View Post
Well said. Having a device that is supported by a community that has individuals who, when users look for support in using the thing, more-or-less tells them it is meant for developers and to **** off and find out for themselves is never going to work. I guess Nokia could see this. It is not rocket science.

Mish.
I'm not sure I've understood this comment correctly but it seems you are suggesting this community tells non-developers to F off. If that is the case it couldn't be further from the truth. This community is one of the most helpful mobile communities I've come across where end users can ask the devs of the apps they use for help, features, or bug fixes and they are often solved or implemented. As with most FOSS communities there are projects that may no longer be active but I've never seen a dev tell a user to F off and find out for themselves.
 

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9000 is offline 9000
2011-03-13 , 01:38
Posts: 1,425 | Thanked: 983 times | Joined on May 2010 @ Hong Kong
#1792
Originally Posted by judibet View Post
I don't undersant Nokia : forget the good Maemo to MeeGo and forget the powerfull MeeGo to a bad Windows Mobile...
Hope the following would help dissipating your confusion:



Source:http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2004-09-06/
 

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judibet is offline judibet
2011-03-13 , 04:48
Posts: 128 | Thanked: 41 times | Joined on Nov 2010 @ BONDY, FRANCE
#1793
Originally Posted by 9000 View Post
Hope the following would help dissipating your confusion:



Source:http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2004-09-06/
A partnership with Microsoft...
A bad Idea, I think...
__________________
Mulder FOX
Nokia N900 PR1.3@1GHz
 

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wmarone is offline wmarone
2011-03-13 , 07:14
Posts: 1,746 | Thanked: 2,100 times | Joined on Sep 2009
#1794
Originally Posted by Qrchack View Post
Yes!! You finally get it It took you two pages of reading to understand what I want to say.
So you're attacking a forum of people for doing what they want instead of catering to you?

I said, or tried to say (writing in english makes it more complicated to me) that maemo sank, and i bet meego will, because YOU made it closed platform. BECAUSE YOU DON"T GIVE A F U C K about ppls needs.
Oh please. Don't give me this nonsense. You're attacking the wrong set of users. Your whole argument is a huge ad-hominem against people who aren't responsible for what you're demanding loudly. There's a ton of people working on this platform, trying to help, trying to keep things going despite the platform vendor's utter failure to hold up their end of the deal.

which won't attract new CUSTOMERS (do i need to write a definition of this word? Well i will write the cynic one: It is a guy from whom a company can suck money).
CUSTOMERS ARE NOT OUR PROBLEM. THEY WERE NOKIA'S PROBLEM. NOKIA FAILED THEM.

Same goes for MeeGo. It's an issue for the device manufacturer to work out. MeeGo will work with developers and vendors. End-users, however, will probably look to a derivative project or to their vendor.

Nokia understood that, nokia was disapointed. I bet, that when they tried to put n900 on wider scale market they thought - hey, we gave Them the best platform ever created, and the decent hardware. So let's just sit down and watch They make apps and we will earn $$$. But u didn't. What You did, was write an apps which was USEFULL, not EYECANDY and FUN.
Oh well damn, let me go write applications that are worthless and eyecandy and not useful. For Nokia's sake. Sorry, no.

you wan't attract an average customer by that.
No, you're blaming the community here for things it isn't responsible for. Stop.

Originally Posted by mishmich View Post
Well said.
It's not well said, he's totally off-base.

Having a device that is supported by a community that has individuals who, when users look for support in using the thing, more-or-less tells them it is meant for developers and to p**** off and find out for themselves is never going to work.
Had Nokia done their job, it's highly likely that most people would probably never come here. In fact, I suspect most people don't. Also, this is not a support forum, this a technical user's forum. If you want support, you should yell at Nokia for their failure to supply it. However, you will probably get a decent amount of help if you're willing to work with people to resolve your issue instead of demanding help and demanding a solution.

I guess Nokia could see this. It is not rocket science.
No, Nokia failed completely to do what they were supposed to, and people came here thinking we were customer service and responsible for everything Nokia was responsible for.

Edit:

Now I get what the problem is. You're mistaking us for the developers who were supposed to be there to push applications into the Ovi store (which is where stupid fart apps and "eyecandy go.) Maemo.org is a community side project, and to access the software it provides you have to explicitly enable the Extras repo.

I think you're barking up the wrong tree.
Last edited by wmarone; 2011-03-13 at 07:52.
 

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mishmich is offline mishmich
2011-03-13 , 07:52
Posts: 248 | Thanked: 191 times | Joined on May 2010 @ New Zealand
#1795
Originally Posted by Cue View Post
I'm not sure I've understood this comment correctly but it seems you are suggesting this community tells non-developers to F off. If that is the case it couldn't be further from the truth. This community is one of the most helpful mobile communities I've come across where end users can ask the devs of the apps they use for help, features, or bug fixes and they are often solved or implemented. As with most FOSS communities there are projects that may no longer be active but I've never seen a dev tell a user to F off and find out for themselves.
You believe that if you want to. I appreciate that many on this list do not accommodate criticism of any sort, and they are always correct. That is part of the reason why the n900 is the end of the line.

Mish.
 
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Daneel is offline Daneel
2011-03-13 , 09:52
Posts: 549 | Thanked: 698 times | Joined on Apr 2010
#1796
I admire you wmarone. I tried to go trough this post but i became physically nauseated, dribble entwined in to more dribble and after that, i bit more dribble.

Originally Posted by Qrchack View Post
Yes u can't and this is your problem



Yes!! You finally get it It took you two pages of reading to understand what I want to say.
I said, or tried to say (writing in english makes it more complicated to me) that maemo sank, and i bet meego will, because YOU made it closed platform. BECAUSE YOU DON"T GIVE A F U C K about ppls needs. You closed it not from a programmers point of view, but from a customer point of view. So Nokia understood, that there is no point in investing in a platform, which won't attract new CUSTOMERS (do i need to write a definition of this word? Well i will write the cynic one: It is a guy from whom a company can suck money). The great (again - no irony here) linux, maemo, open source generally speaking community will allways support itself. You have specyfic needs, very diffrent then the needs of averages. But this makes the platforms, in which such community is involved, or "worse" - on which they are based, useless for making money.

Nokia understood that, nokia was disapointed. I bet, that when they tried to put n900 on wider scale market they thought - hey, we gave Them the best platform ever created, and the decent hardware. So let's just sit down and watch They make apps and we will earn $$$. But u didn't. What You did, was write an apps which was USEFULL, not EYECANDY and FUN. - you wan't attract an average customer by that.
 

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Qrchack is offline Qrchack
2011-03-13 , 22:50
Posts: 18 | Thanked: 3 times | Joined on Jun 2010
#1797
Originally Posted by wmarone View Post
CUSTOMERS ARE NOT OUR PROBLEM. THEY WERE NOKIA'S PROBLEM. NOKIA FAILED THEM.
With that I can agree - never try to build a commercially successfull product around an open project. Nokia tried, and they failed.

Originally Posted by wmarone View Post
Maemo.org is a community side project, and to access the software it provides you have to explicitly enable the Extras repo.
Are You sure we are talking about the same phone? In my n900, just after i bought it, maemo-extras was enabled by default. After reflashing it to vanila state, maemo-extras was also enabled by default. Why you think NOKIA did it?

PS: wan't is not a new word - it's my mistake.
IQ below 50, so i have to explain it?
 
wmarone is offline wmarone
2011-03-13 , 23:06
Posts: 1,746 | Thanked: 2,100 times | Joined on Sep 2009
#1798
Originally Posted by Qrchack View Post
With that I can agree - never try to build a commercially successfull product around an open project. Nokia tried, and they failed.
Which is Nokia's fault entirely, and has nothing to do with using open source software in a commercial project.

Are You sure we are talking about the same phone? In my n900, just after i bought it, maemo-extras was enabled by default.
And on mine, Extras was present in the list but disabled.

After reflashing it to vanila state, maemo-extras was also enabled by default. Why you think NOKIA did it?
Who knows? If you restore from backup, IIRC, it will restore your repos... In any case, it's certainly not because they were betting the farm on the maemo.org community, I assure you.

PS: wan't is not a new word - it's my mistake.
IQ below 50, so i have to explain it?
And out of left field, more ad-hominem.
 
Funklord is offline Funklord
2011-03-13 , 23:43
Posts: 69 | Thanked: 41 times | Joined on Feb 2010 @ Sweden
#1799
Originally Posted by zimon View Post
Sorry, but BS. You've learned obviously anything about reading the differencies about rpm and deb and why LSB has chosen and made a decision.
yes, I've learned anything!

Originally Posted by zimon View Post
But just look in meego forum, why Nokia is not allowed to use "Meego"-name in N950 and try to guess how expensive it will be for Nokia to change from deb to rpm, and all this because Linux fragmentation in this issue, which would had easily fixed long ago by Debian and Ubuntu if they wouldn't be so stubborn.

Ask gqil how expensive it will be for Nokia and if it would had been easy, they would had done it already last year.
Huh? That's the reason I've been opposed to the whole Meego thing, why does Nokia even need it. Changing package manager to a another one which isn't better in any way is a waste of time.
It's easier just to add what ever packages that come out of meego to debian.

Just drop the fragmentation thing already, ok?

It makes me sick having to think of the amount of time developers have to spend, just because of a marketing/branding thing.

At one place I worked, one of the bosses suggested an OEM scheme for the software we used. I flat out refused to do it. A few years later somebody else did it for him.
Guess what, that boss wanted it because he was being handed money under the table, and then we started seeing the software in the wild, with vague licensing contracts. The company went bankrupt shortly after.

Why do we even need the Meego name? It's not like anyone knows about it.
If a name is that important, why not pick something known, like slackware, debian, gentoo, or ubuntu?
 
zimon is offline zimon
2011-03-14 , 00:02
Posts: 1,341 | Thanked: 708 times | Joined on Feb 2010
#1800
Originally Posted by Funklord View Post
Changing package manager to a another one which isn't better in any way is a waste of time.
It's easier just to add what ever packages that come out of meego to debian.

Just drop the fragmentation thing already, ok?
So you claim having transaction support in a package manager is no improvement ? And also you claim it is no practically any safer having GPG signatures in packages embedded than detached somewhere in the repository and lost by many in transfer? If so, then either you are not honest or you do not really seem to know much anything about C.S.

LSB wouldn't had made a standard about package manager, if it wouldn't be important. And Nokia's case is a very good example how expensive it can become when Linux fragmentation hits like it has in this case.
Last edited by zimon; 2011-03-14 at 00:09.
 
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