Originally Posted by volt

An anecdote does not a business save.

Originally Posted by specc

When are you boozos going to understand that the stock market does NOT govern the companies?

Originally Posted by gerbick

It does indicate the viability, consumer confidence and desirability of a company quickly for the average consumer. Simply stated, a falling stock price means that the folks should double take, research further. A lot of reasons for falling prices, but Nokia has a 5+ year of decisions and difficulties that have driven the price to where it's at now.

And it's "bozos". I actually like booze, so I'm somewhat offended

Originally Posted by specc

True, but a handful of boozed out geeks does not a business sink.

I really don't know how to explain this so you understand, but the thing is, the majority of people investing on the stock market are the cautious kind. They invest lots and lots of money, spread out the risk and creates investments for their customers that has only slightly higher risk than the bank, but also only slightly higher gain. Then there are traders that buy and sell and try to manipulate as best as they can to make a profit. And of course there are private people with more or less success.

There are other type of investors accepting much higher risk, injecting money into businesses directly. They can roughly be divided in two groups. One is purely profit driven. They pump up a company so it can (hopefully) be sold at huge profit after a few years. The other group of investors are involved in the industry, the details. They are genuinely interested in creating industries. Typically they are successful entrepreneurs themselves.

It's the last mentioned kind of investor that makes the world rotate. All the others are just bean counters. What makes them tick is to succeed in what they have set out to do, whatever it is, money is just a tool, and the profit is just icing on the cake. That's the kind of investors that owns the majority of Nokia. They may of course fail, because the risk is high, but they wont let fluctuations on the bloody stock market influence what they are doing.

Originally Posted by specc

This shows a commitment by the main share holders that is way above average, but also shows that they genuinely believe Nokia will make it.

PureView on WP8 will show if they are dead or not. I know lots and lots of people are waiting to get WP until WP8 comes, and lots and lots are waiting for PureView until it comes on a WP8. My main concern is that Nokia will do something stupid like launching a Lumia PureView with 21 MP instead of 41, or some similar stupidity in old Nokia fashion (too little RAM, one core instead of two, no bt, no FM, too small battery...). What they need is a flagship that is untouchable for a couple of years.

Originally Posted by specc

PureView on WP8 will show if they are dead or not. I know lots and lots of people are waiting to get WP until WP8 comes, and lots and lots are waiting for PureView until it comes on a WP8. My main concern is that Nokia will do something stupid like launching a Lumia PureView with 21 MP instead of 41, or some similar stupidity in old Nokia fashion (too little RAM, one core instead of two, no bt, no FM, too small battery...). What they need is a flagship that is untouchable for a couple of years.

Originally Posted by Cue

Never thought I'd say this but you are as clueless as Lumiaman. Boozed out geeks? You think it's boozed out geeks not buying Nokia phones? If anything it's a bunch of not very sober geeks keeping Nokia alive by buying them.

I don't think you understand a public company at all.
Can I ask who these investors are, where their money is going and how exactly they are financing Nokia? There has been no leveraged buyout.

If these special investors exist then why are there factory closures, sales office closures and mass layoffs? Do you honestly believe Nokia wanted this to happen if it had the financial backing needed to keep them running? It's very naive and frankly stupid to think that the "bean counters" do not matter.

Anyway, as predicted last week, stock decrease in the run up to the earnings report. A buyout is a possibility but I'm not sure who would want the baggage other than MS (it's their baggage, a type of third party poison pill), so it may not happen at all.

Originally Posted by specc

As I said, explaining this for bozos is hard. The main investors can do whatever they like, except altering the distribution of shares.

You have to stop thinking stocks, and start thinking industry. The stock market is irrelevant for Nokia, it is of no use to them. There is no fresh cash there. The only fresh cash is directly from the share holders, but as I said, that will not happen untill Nokia has shrunk down to a size that is natural for the new company. They are still too large.