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Texrat is offline Texrat
2010-03-23 , 18:12
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#181
Originally Posted by qgil View Post
Anyway, time to bring the focus back to the Council.
Can this council member get your focus for a moment to ask if you're receiving his emails? Just making sure I'm not going to Spam or some equally dark hole.
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SD69 is offline SD69
2010-03-23 , 18:18
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#182
Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
SD69, if you want to move this to Ask the Council I would be happy to pick it up there.
Yes, we'll move it somewhere. Either other thread or I was thinking of maybe putting it as a question to the council candidates.
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javispedro is offline javispedro
2010-03-23 , 18:19
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#183
Originally Posted by lemmyslender View Post
Would you care to clarify? It sounds to me as though you are advocating direction many potential new members to Nokia Support? Are you suggesting that Texrats' Maemo Greeters program should instead of answering a question / addressing a complaint, with information and links, direct those people to Nokia Support?
I don't really think a greeters program is incompatible with what GAN advocates. Of course maemo.org welcomes news members; it's just that it's my understanding that it's not the council work to be Nokia's market research department.
 

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Texrat is offline Texrat
2010-03-23 , 18:24
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#184
Originally Posted by lemmyslender View Post
Would you care to clarify? It sounds to me as though you are advocating direction many potential new members to Nokia Support? Are you suggesting that Texrats' Maemo Greeters program should instead of answering a question / addressing a complaint, with information and links, direct those people to Nokia Support?

Most of the other answers above yours advocate providing guidance and answers, not just shoving people back out the door.

Is it that you don't believe there are many end-users here or that you don't want end users here?

Please clarify as this sounds on the face to be a particularly dangerous and unfriendly attitude to have.
I won't answer for GeneralAntilles but since you invoked Maemo Greeters...

The original premise for MG was absurdly simple: people voluntarily add helpful links to their signatures and from that point on need do nothing other than post.

And to be honest that's an okay stopping point. It distributes useful information farther and wider than just about any other method and with almost no effort.

Now, some Greeters asked if they were expected to answer "help desk" type questions. My first response was and is no-- mainly because the barrier to becoming a Greeter was so low that people unprepared to actually provide true user support might feel obligated to answer questions that they were uncomfortable answering. In fact that did come up in PMs.

As far as I'm concerned anything above and beyond simple direction to resources was outside the scope of the original idea and maybe should stay that way. On the other hand, it's only natural that some experts would (and did) sign up, and some newcomers ramped thjeir knowledge up to answer questions... but I hesitate to formalize that further.
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GeneralAntilles is offline GeneralAntilles
2010-03-23 , 18:24
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#185
Originally Posted by lemmyslender View Post
Would you care to clarify? It sounds to me as though you are advocating direction many potential new members to Nokia Support? Are you suggesting that Texrats' Maemo Greeters program should instead of answering a question / addressing a complaint, with information and links, direct those people to Nokia Support?
maemo.org's job is not to provide frontline user support. Now, of course, users (both the enthusiast and plain-old end kind) will end up here and help is something we've always been very good at providing, but supporting end users is not our primary mandate nor is it something that we can always help with.

Originally Posted by lemmyslender View Post
Most of the other answers above yours advocate providing guidance and answers, not just shoving people back out the door.

Is it that you don't believe there are many end-users here or that you don't want end users here?
Again, I think this is a matter of definitions. Pure end users and enthusiasts are two different groups which I find people here tend to confuse. Pure end users just want a phone they don't have to think about, when they want support, they're not interested in learning they're just interested in making their phone work. Enthusiasts (no matter their level of knowledge) have a different mentality. They'll willing to be engaged, they're willing to learn, and they're always looking for something more.

maemo.org does not cater to the pure end users. Why? Simply because it can't do that while still being the amazing home for enthusiasts it's always been. There are channels to serve end users, but maemo.org isn't one of them, and it's a disservice to the community and to those end users to pretend it is.

Nokia Care (whether they actually do or not is a separate issue) exists to serve these users, they're better equipped for it than we are and feedback provided through them is more effective.
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Last edited by GeneralAntilles; 2010-03-23 at 18:24. Reason: Broken tag
 

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2010-03-23 , 18:28
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#186
Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles View Post
Nokia Care (whether they actually do or not is a separate issue) exists to serve these users, they're better equipped for it than we are and feedback provided through them is more effective.
Key point here, class, hence my highlighting!

The more we triage ad hoc here, the less tends to get back to Nokia as it should.

But please read that sentence carefully-- I do not mean to say triage done here need be off Nokia's radar-- I'm only addressing the tendency for that to occur.

It's best to use proper channels-- and to that extent, this community can serve very well as resource identification and user advocate.
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RevdKathy is offline RevdKathy
2010-03-23 , 18:29
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#187
Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles View Post
Nokia Care (whether they actually do or not is a separate issue) ...
"ay, there's the rub;"
Hamlet, Act III, Scene i Line 72
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lemmyslender is offline lemmyslender
2010-03-23 , 18:57
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#188
Thank you all for the clarification, if I could:

A new member starts a post similar to:
How could Nokia overlook MMS on the N900, I assumed it was supported?

Do we send them packing to Nokia support, or do we kindly point them in the direction of fMMS (which if we're not comfortable we shouldn't do anything)?

How about someone complaining about their battery only lasting 4 @$%@# hours. Do we send them packing or help troubleshoot and maybe improve their experience?

Where are you suggesting we draw the line? If I'm perusing the forum and see a question I can answer (no matter how basic), I will try to do so, unless for some reason I'm in a hurry.

I'm not suggesting we try to take over for Nokia Care, or that we have members who spend the majority of their time providing "support", I'm suggesting if we see something we can do to help, we do so. If that member never comes back, so what, it only cost me a couple minutes of my time. But, maybe they do come back, and pitch in themselves, and we've gained a new productive member.

We should be looking every new member as a potential, not a nuisance, that isn't our problem to deal with.
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hopbeat is offline hopbeat
2010-03-23 , 19:10
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#189
What, in short, is the difference between help from Nokia Care and from maemo.org?
N900 owner is entitled to the former one and can hope for the latter one. If anyone here wants to help, they are absolutely welcomed. But no-one can be made to help, it is not obligatory.
Providing support of various kind is a natural thing in community and if it gets bigger, it usually means that the community grows. Which is good. But this is not the primary function of community, nor its obligation.
If I'm going to get mad about not getting support, I shouldn't get mad at maemo.org. I should get mad at Nokia Care.

In short: you're a hero if you help, but no-one should be required to be one.
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lemmyslender is offline lemmyslender
2010-03-23 , 19:24
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#190
Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles View Post
maemo.org does not cater to the pure end users. Why? Simply because it can't do that while still being the amazing home for enthusiasts it's always been. There are channels to serve end users, but maemo.org isn't one of them, and it's a disservice to the community and to those end users to pretend it is..
Could anyone help me out here? I don't want to do a disservice to the community. Beyond the obvious stuff (broken usb ports, etc) what questions or types of questions should I be referring to Nokia instead of answering here?

Really, seriously, what are some concrete examples of things we should be forwarding to Nokia instead of answering here?
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