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2010-07-14
, 23:28
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Posts: 3,428 |
Thanked: 2,856 times |
Joined on Jul 2008
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#182
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Originally Posted by attila77
I'm telling you that. It is the reason some people are still kicking themselves because they don't know how to call Harmattan without shooting MeeGo in the foot on one side or shooting Harmattan in on the other.
Originally Posted by w00t
Well.. if you both say so I'll bow to the experts: But that is most certainly not the way I've ever seen a free linux-based system distributed. Well.. short of maybe Android.
No, that's precisely the way it will be I think, and personally I'd rather not have it any other way.
We have a chance to make our offering compelling enough for people to want to use it *more than* the proprietary offerings - work on that, and let market forces do their work..
MeeGo is free, completely open, and any manufacturer can grab it and make whatever they want from it as far as I understand. I would think it goes completely against the Linux Foundation, and most open source, to say "In order to use this - you must do XYZ with your PDQ".
I'd be .. very surprised to say the least..
I'm not saying I disagree, or that I think it's a bad idea - but I do see trying to tell manufacturers they can't do certain things in a proprietary way if they want to borrow code from MeeGo will actually limit it's adoption, not promote it.
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2010-07-14
, 23:30
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Posts: 1,055 |
Thanked: 4,107 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
@ Norway
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#183
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Few points.
I think that once people are back at their desks, things will start ticking along faster. There's already progress being made on #meego-arm/meego-dev, today, a lot of wifi issues got sorted for instance, and some progress on power management.
Originally Posted by fatalsaint
Right now, you do, yes. This isn't the end of the line, though. Two things have lead to this being "the state of affairs" for the time being. One, a number of problems on the n900 demanding more attention than image building (wifi totally crapping out, various other issues), two, it is July. Summer in Finland. This means most of Finland is on holiday.
Intel's handset platform is the official platform, it actually works(!!!!!!), and has flashable images. On the N900.. we have to build and compile our own.
I think that once people are back at their desks, things will start ticking along faster. There's already progress being made on #meego-arm/meego-dev, today, a lot of wifi issues got sorted for instance, and some progress on power management.
Originally Posted by fatalsaint
Look and feel doesn't really mean a lot, but when you already have one (open) look and feel, it doesn't make a lot of sense to get them to reinvent themselves (delaying the netbook release) - instead, it makes sense to fit in with it and go along with the plan.
Intels UI is used on Netbooks.
A rather similar look and feel is used for the official Handset UX.
Originally Posted by fatalsaint
See points above. (Might also be worth asking on list or IRC what you can do to help get this fixed in an automated way? Many hands..)
The Nokia N900 doesn't even have proper backlight controlling with MeeGo without hacking it.
__________________
i'm a Qt expert and former Jolla sailor (forever sailing, in spirit).
if you like, read more about me.
if you find me entertaining, or useful, thank me. if you don't, then tell me why.
i'm a Qt expert and former Jolla sailor (forever sailing, in spirit).
if you like, read more about me.
if you find me entertaining, or useful, thank me. if you don't, then tell me why.
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2010-07-14
, 23:33
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Posts: 1,055 |
Thanked: 4,107 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
@ Norway
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#184
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I think you misinterpreted me totally there :P
Never has there been a better time to show that OSS can shine.
Originally Posted by fatalsaint
This, was exactly what I was saying, is the great thing. Someone can come take MeeGo, butcher it with their own proprietary crap, and it'll sink like a stone because - I sincerely hope - it won't be able to keep pace with working in the open.
MeeGo is free, completely open, and any manufacturer can grab it and make whatever they want from it as far as I understand.
Never has there been a better time to show that OSS can shine.
__________________
i'm a Qt expert and former Jolla sailor (forever sailing, in spirit).
if you like, read more about me.
if you find me entertaining, or useful, thank me. if you don't, then tell me why.
i'm a Qt expert and former Jolla sailor (forever sailing, in spirit).
if you like, read more about me.
if you find me entertaining, or useful, thank me. if you don't, then tell me why.
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2010-07-14
, 23:35
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Posts: 3,319 |
Thanked: 5,610 times |
Joined on Aug 2008
@ Finland
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#185
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Originally Posted by fatalsaint
In car terms, Intel put a body kit on Moblin and called it a day (really, the netbook MeeGo is just that - Moblin), as opposed to Nokia, which got a Moblin chassis and now needs to fit the engine, make a custom bodywork for it, etc. It's no wonder the Intel part is 'more ready'.
I've seen, from an end user perspective, more Intel than Nokia in everything MeeGo to-date.
Intel's handset platform is the official platform, it actually works(!!!!!!), and has flashable images. On the N900.. we have to build and compile our own.
Intels UI is used on Netbooks.
A rather similar look and feel is used for the official Handset UX.
__________________
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Maintainer of PyQt (see introduction and docs), AppWatch, QuickBrownFox, etc
Blogging about mobile linux - The Penguin Moves!
Maintainer of PyQt (see introduction and docs), AppWatch, QuickBrownFox, etc
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2010-07-14
, 23:36
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Posts: 1,589 |
Thanked: 720 times |
Joined on Aug 2009
@ Arlington (DFW), Texas
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#186
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Originally Posted by danramos
This would be a stop gap money grab for Nokia. But luckily for people like me, they don't base their strategy on short term commercial success, but long term stability as well as a philosophy they seem unwilling to extinguish.
Versus.. what? The continuing downward trend toward failure, like now? If Nokia produced Android phones in addition to MeeGo, they would at least be competing and making sure their brand was relevant. SELL THE CUSTOMERS WHAT THEY WANT. Is that really so hard to understand?
Nokia wants to connect people as well as connect people to TECHNOLOGY. Not just some people, or rich people, or people living in democracies with developed infrastructure, but ALL people.
Android alone won't address the massive low economic customers, which are where 98%+ of the next billion customers in wireless will come from. Symbian does that, at price points Android can only dream to mimick. If Nokia adopted Android, it would diminish their commitment to Symbian, since Symbian and Android are direct competitors in the mid to high end segment.
MeeGo will take the lion's share of that high end from Symbian, which will be pushed down market to absorb their large high end featurephone converts at similar price points. MeeGo runtime support and capabilites for developers will blow anything on the market out of the water, assuming WebOS doesn't adopt a similar architecture.
Android, iOS, WP7, and Blackberry OS aren't even close from a developer standpoint in terms of what is possible. It has manufacturer support from heavyweights like Dell, Fujitsu, and many others. It has a chance to dominate the high end and tablet market. Its shared Qt ecosystem with market dominating Symbian makes things that much more attractive to commercial developers eager to compete with Google on a more even playing field.
Both these OSes share core UI and application toolkits, which makes it a formidable ecosystem and a worthy situation to Nokia for massive investment. The short term profits gained and man hours wasted on Android instead of Qt and MeeGo/Symbian are greatly exceeded by the long term profits they stand to make spending that investment just as they have.
No other competitor has even close to the same opportunity. Google can't reach the low end with its thirst for Snapdragons and CPU cycles. Neither can Apple, and I doubt they want to. Microsoft abandoned it wiht its high system requirements. RIM hasn't attracted the high end well...
So what, Nokia should support THREE OSes?!? Of course not. They'll continue to improve Symbian's UI, with a new version coming this winter. Their lead over Android is safe, based on the time it took Apple to obtain its current state. Remember, Symbian has GROWN marketshare.
That is sound business strategy, and if executed well, can be considered a true revolutionary and daring success. My bets are on MeeGo/Qt.
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Last edited by christexaport; 2010-07-14 at 23:45.
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2010-07-14
, 23:38
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Posts: 3,428 |
Thanked: 2,856 times |
Joined on Jul 2008
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#187
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Originally Posted by w00t
Ok, I somehow am getting the idea you and I are on completely the same page but somehow are crossing wires....
I think you misinterpreted me totally there :P
This, was exactly what I was saying, is the great thing. Someone can come take MeeGo, butcher it with their own proprietary crap, and it'll sink like a stone because - I sincerely hope - it won't be able to keep pace with working in the open.
Never has there been a better time to show that OSS can shine.
My only comment, originally, was directed at Dan talking about Nokia butchering MeeGo like, in his mind, they've done throughout the past.
I was saying that Yes, that is perfectly possible that Nokia will do so with their edition of their MeeGo phone (keep in mind: Not talking about the Q4 2010 Harmattan phone .. I'm talking future entirely-meego based phone should one ever come from Nokia - we would assume yes at some point..) - but that regardless what proprietary or any parts Nokia adds and wants to hold onto like a child and their blankey.. does not reflect negatively or in anyway hinder upstream, main MeeGo.
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2010-07-14
, 23:41
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Posts: 3,428 |
Thanked: 2,856 times |
Joined on Jul 2008
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#188
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Originally Posted by w00t
Well I know it's not the end of the line
Right now, you do, yes. This isn't the end of the line, though. Two things have lead to this being "the state of affairs" for the time being. One, a number of problems on the n900 demanding more attention than image building (wifi totally crapping out, various other issues), two, it is July. Summer in Finland. This means most of Finland is on holiday.
.. I don't expect it to be perfect here.. we're in pre-alpha alpha peek-a-boo stages right now. But I did expect the N900 to be the most complete, or at least be on par with whatever other platforms they were using, when it was released. I was under the impression (and they still maintain) the N900 is the main ARM development device for MeeGo.. so I was quite surprised to see that it was lacking quite a bit from the AAVA handset from Intel.
In ANY case.. since none of this is related to the thread at hand
.. the point I was making on this is that Danramos is saying he doesn't expect much from MeeGo because he doesn't expect much from Nokia. I'm saying what does he expect from Intel? Cuz that's the presence we mostly see (right now, not future) - Now, if he has a specific objection to hating both Intel AND Nokia.. then he can hate on MeeGo too
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2010-07-14
, 23:43
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Posts: 3,319 |
Thanked: 5,610 times |
Joined on Aug 2008
@ Finland
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#189
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Originally Posted by fatalsaint
Well, considering the goals of MeeGo, they're sure as hell making it more and more difficult for themselves to do that. Who knows, maybe it's a good thing, eh ?
My only comment, originally, was directed at Dan talking about Nokia butchering MeeGo like, in his mind, they've done throughout the past.
__________________
Blogging about mobile linux - The Penguin Moves!
Maintainer of PyQt (see introduction and docs), AppWatch, QuickBrownFox, etc
Blogging about mobile linux - The Penguin Moves!
Maintainer of PyQt (see introduction and docs), AppWatch, QuickBrownFox, etc
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2010-07-14
, 23:46
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Posts: 4,930 |
Thanked: 2,272 times |
Joined on Oct 2007
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#190
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Originally Posted by Crashdamage
s/Linux/UNIX/g
Disagree. Android is really not Linux, and certainly not a Linux distro. It's only a much-modified linux kernel supporting a Davlik VM.
It has helped some to increase public awareness that there's a thing called Linux. But not much, since most Android users still don't know Linux is in there at all. Betcha if you asked 10 Android users what Linux is at least 9 would have no clue.
If MeeGo succeeds, it will change that because it really is Linux, as in a real Linux distro.
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