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| The Following User Says Thank You to patlak For This Useful Post: | ||
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2011-07-08
, 16:54
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Banned |
Posts: 974 |
Thanked: 622 times |
Joined on Oct 2010
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#182
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Originally Posted by patlak
Nokia bought Symbian in 2008. They open sourced it, a prime example of good closed source that didn't go anywhere as open source. Then they closed it and literally gave it away to accenture. Today accenture is in charge of maintenance and development, and things are actually happening again. IMO Symbian is still the best, and my E6 is the best device, but Symbian OS - the longer you can push Nokia software engineers and Nokia protocol away from it, the better it becomes. Why is it that Opera makes top notch browser for the E6 and Nokia still, after all these years, makes something I would call early alpha? The quality of software is directly related to the quality of the software engineers and architects.
Just to clarify, Nokia makes both hardware and software. Symbian, Maemo and hopefully it continues down the line, Meego, are all Nokia made operating systems. And Symbian kills WP7 today even if it lacks UI candy. Just compare the sales. Why in the hell would you dump billions of users who are familiar with Symbian for an OS that loses sales by the day?
Also, you can google how many of those poor organisms (companies) survived in Microsoft's ecosystem.
Maemo has always been just a toy for Nokia, never meant to be anything else, and to be fair, Maemo is the brainchild of one single guy, and he is not at Nokia anymore. Harmattan looks beautiful though, so there has to be some talent there. MeeGo is, well, soaked in mud, maybe in 10 years time. MeeGo is starting to be the final proof that pure open source simply will not work in real life. The Summer release for instance, someone and everyone forgot that the OS needs a swap partition to work properly. I understand why Nokia has left MeeGo, it is a dead end. Maemo on the other hand, has a potential future, and the reason is that it was architected from the start by a top guy who made it the way he wanted.
Regarding Symbian, the problem is not that it isn't a good OS, the problem is that it's too difficult to work with, it takes too long time and cost too much to develop. Maybe they will fix it at accenture, I sure hope so, but objectively and honestly I think they would be much better off continuing with Maemo instead (NOT MeeGo). It sure as hell will be interesting to see how all this unfolds.
WP is for high end. Symbian is way too expensive and takes too long time. MeeGo is a dead end road. Neither MeeGo or Symbian is able to make Nokia compete at the top end. Maemo could compete, no problems, but the former CEO (as in NOT Elop) "killed" Mameo so they could go further with MeeGo instead. Elop has killed MeeGo, but as we all know, Maemo isn't really all that dead after all, far from it. And things are getting more confusing:
http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/news/...10_for_Sym.php
Meaning, things developed for the N9 could run on any Symbian device.
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2011-07-08
, 17:22
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Posts: 234 |
Thanked: 160 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
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#183
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Originally Posted by patlak
The problem is is that it took too long for all of that to come together. Personally, I blame it on Symbian ruling the roost for too long and not being flexible to change. By the time they realized that they needed to, it was almost too late.
Nokia has the ecosystem, or shall I say had it:
MeeGo + Symbian + s40 + Qt + Ovi Services (store, maps, mail, etc)
Nokia's base is much higher than Microsoft's. Plus they already have two market disrupting devices that can be launched, N9 and N950 (WP7 is not ready nor disruptive, it's a common failure among Android, iOS, Symbian, MeeGo). What the hell happened with the management in Nokia?
That being said, Elop's reaction was too far the other direction. Yes, Symbian probably needed to be taken down a rung or two, but Elop's reaction was to take it out to the back and put one in the head. Given that it is most of Nokia's business right now (and probably will remain so even when Nokia releases a Windows Phone), it was plain stupid.
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2011-07-08
, 17:28
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Posts: 234 |
Thanked: 160 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
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#184
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Originally Posted by ericsson
Linus Torvalds would have a bone to pick with that.
MeeGo is starting to be the final proof that pure open source simply will not work in real life.
Also, I'd argue that MeeGo isn't any more "pure open source" than Android. The only difference is that we get to see how the sausage gets made, which isn't always pretty.
Last edited by TheLongshot; 2011-07-08 at 17:30.
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2011-07-08
, 17:49
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Banned |
Posts: 974 |
Thanked: 622 times |
Joined on Oct 2010
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#185
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Originally Posted by TheLongshot
And Symbian is steaming forward in North America. Soon they will pass RIM and become number three after iOS and Android
The problem is is that it took too long for all of that to come together. Personally, I blame it on Symbian ruling the roost for too long and not being flexible to change. By the time they realized that they needed to, it was almost too late.
That being said, Elop's reaction was too far the other direction. Yes, Symbian probably needed to be taken down a rung or two, but Elop's reaction was to take it out to the back and put one in the head. Given that it is most of Nokia's business right now (and probably will remain so even when Nokia releases a Windows Phone), it was plain stupid.
http://gs.statcounter.com/#mobile_os...-201006-201106
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2011-07-08
, 17:53
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Banned |
Posts: 974 |
Thanked: 622 times |
Joined on Oct 2010
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#186
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Originally Posted by TheLongshot
That should read: we get to see how the sausage doesn't get made.
Linus Torvalds would have a bone to pick with that.
Also, I'd argue that MeeGo isn't any more "pure open source" than Android. The only difference is that we get to see how the sausage gets made, which isn't always pretty.
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2011-07-08
, 17:58
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Posts: 173 |
Thanked: 219 times |
Joined on Nov 2010
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#187
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Arguing against open source using a mostly closed-source example won't take you very far, you know...
The N900 could have something much bigger than it is if only 100% of it's software and drivers were available. Suuure, some other evil small-time asian company could come around and put the whole suite into a cheap device and sell nokia's hard work around their market for little to no cost...
Oh, but then Maemo would spread around like wild-fire, there would be like a frakkload of "ApPs" floating around, enough to truly call it a plague. You know, Maemo'd probably be everywhere, and an, what's the name of that thing again... Oh! ecosystem would like blossom out of it.
Dude, seriously, how could that hurt someone? In fact, there's even a certain "Big Two" company that has done something very similar...
So, I'm trying hard to see open-source not working... All I'm seeing is a short-sighted company.
The N900 could have something much bigger than it is if only 100% of it's software and drivers were available. Suuure, some other evil small-time asian company could come around and put the whole suite into a cheap device and sell nokia's hard work around their market for little to no cost...
Oh, but then Maemo would spread around like wild-fire, there would be like a frakkload of "ApPs" floating around, enough to truly call it a plague. You know, Maemo'd probably be everywhere, and an, what's the name of that thing again... Oh! ecosystem would like blossom out of it.
Dude, seriously, how could that hurt someone? In fact, there's even a certain "Big Two" company that has done something very similar...
So, I'm trying hard to see open-source not working... All I'm seeing is a short-sighted company.
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2011-07-08
, 18:16
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Posts: 1,625 |
Thanked: 998 times |
Joined on Aug 2010
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#188
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Originally Posted by TheLongshot
Maemo isn't open source software compliant neither as the source code of the OS is not (fully) available.
Linus Torvalds would have a bone to pick with that.
Also, I'd argue that MeeGo isn't any more "pure open source" than Android. The only difference is that we get to see how the sausage gets made, which isn't always pretty.
if you wanna see something really ugly (and monstrously inefficient) look @ KDE4's development since openSUSE 11.0 tried to enact it.
a grotesque farce.
'nough said...
we already had an ugly discussion along what open source is or isn't and why (not) it is a good business model on the EPIC N9 anticipation thread.
the ugliness revolved around the question whether (service) companies that make (some) money around open source are making that money FROM open source or from SERVICE around o.s. or from PROPRIETARY software that runs on o.s.
to focus on the mobile phone market:
Google isn't making money from o.s.; they make the money from ads. the more mobile phones their ads display on, the more money they make; thus android is free; it is probably the least o.s. as Google has started including PROPRIETARY features in the kernel that the Linux Foundation rejected.
NOKIA... didn't make money at all with Maemo, so the whole point is moot.
@ least Maemo was closer to the o.s. model in that the kernel is open & can be altered (power kernel aso.)
Originally Posted by TheLongshot
Intel is obviously not making money from o.s.
[...]
Also, I'd argue that MeeGo isn't any more "pure open source" than Android. The only difference is that we get to see how the sausage gets made, which isn't always pretty.
Asus, Acer, Lenovo (?) and other net top manufacturer including Intel CPUs are the hope for Intel to get money out of this.
considering that the Linux Foundation has the stewardship over MeeGo pretty much guarantees its openness...
==> thus your argument is not sound
if you want to go & hunt down your meat yourself, be our guest
that should keep you busy for a while ¦-)
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2011-07-08
, 18:19
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Posts: 234 |
Thanked: 160 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
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#189
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Originally Posted by ericsson
More has gotten done for Maemo through open source than the total effort of Nokia.
That should read: we get to see how the sausage doesn't get made.
With Meego, I think the expectations of most (including Nokia) was out of line with the goals of those who are making Meego. It follows in the footsteps of the cognitive dissonance that Nokia has suffered from for years.
Originally Posted by misterc
Considering that I wasn't talking about Maemo, all of this is beside the point. As others have said, Meego != Maemo.
Maemo isn't open source software compliant neither as the source code of the OS is not (fully) available.
Last edited by TheLongshot; 2011-07-08 at 18:21.
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2011-07-08
, 18:20
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Posts: 1,625 |
Thanked: 998 times |
Joined on Aug 2010
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#190
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Originally Posted by ericsson
your point being?
And Symbian is steaming forward in North America. Soon they will pass RIM and become number three after iOS and Android
http://gs.statcounter.com/#mobile_os...-201006-201106
only about a hundred posts ago you were the one advocating that Symbian had to go down the drain to make room for m$ crap...
changed your mind?
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MeeGo + Symbian + s40 + Qt + Ovi Services (store, maps, mail, etc)
Nokia's base is much higher than Microsoft's. Plus they already have two market disrupting devices that can be launched, N9 and N950 (WP7 is not ready nor disruptive, it's a common failure among Android, iOS, Symbian, MeeGo). What the hell happened with the management in Nokia?