Yes as opposed to me.....
I've not claimed that the 800's a much better device than the N9, & then not backed that up with a list of features/reasons why.
Yes as opposed to many in this thread, Gerbick & Marxian for e.g. often give very well nuanced rationalizations for their claims.

And still you apparently have some special knowledge that no-one else has.
Which proves unequivocally that the N8 and 800 are selling far better worldwide. And I repeat...
Even if you can it's a flawed argument; device selling better does not directly translate to device is better.
Aside from that you are misconstruing the intent of the thread...
The purpose is to debate why N9/Maemo6x & successors couldn't have been pushed as hard (or similarly) as WP on the high-end.*
Not to state the (potentially) obvious, which is that the 800 is (or will) selling better, & newer phones like 808PV & 900 will be more popular.

No **** the 900's better hw-wise overall (pretty mediocre by the time it's worldwide), & the 808PV's (possibly) even better hw-wise.**
The N9 was never meant to compete with them, by now it would (should?) have had a successor to make it's case against them.
From brief chats I've had with people closely connected to it all, that successor would've used the U8500 or something OMAP4-based.
Who knows what the remainder of it would've looked like, but I daresay the screen would've have improved notably over the N9.
Harmattan team would've grown in size (notably) since Feb 11' not shrunk 70%, & would've had a more concerted marketing/distribution push on it's side.
There would've been more aggressive development programs, & developers would be interested because they'd know that the N950 & N9 aren't dodo's.

*or even exclusively until the 3rd Maemo6x phone had been on the market for a while, & the 1st MeeGo x86 phone had hit shelves.
Which would have been June/July at the very latest.
**depending on which components you place more emphasis on.

http://www.gsmarena.com/huawei_annou...-news-3890.php

nokia is died, maemo is died, lets face the truth, even huawei can produce a monster spec right now, N9 is overpriced, but inside it an outdated HW, now i know why lg or others company have plastic crappy built, because they give us latest chipset inside, its time to nokia to think to be casing maker for other company, they sold design? idea? no, they killed it, its gone with N9(their last original product), for now nokia is just microsoft doll, with N9 spec they should priced it aroung 300$, lol, what a crap

^Mate just buy an Android or iPhone, honestly, you'll be much happier, forget about the N9.
The CPU/GPU are hugely paramount to you, that's all you ever talk about, so Android/iOS is where you need to be.

A have made no claims for better or worse. I simply state the facts. The N8 and Lumia is more popular than the N9. Simple statistics.

http://www.google.com/trends/?q=noki...ate=ytd&sort=1

And "surprisingly" Google statistics back up my simple observations. Still, IMO, Swipe is utterly clumsy compared with Belle or WP. That is my personal opinion, but one that seems to be shared by many.

In that context, the N9 could NEVER be a flagship device. It would never outshine the N8 no matter how you look at it, and no matter how much you hate Symbian. That's the truth.

people who don't own these devices should not speak on this forum.

Try again & try repudiating my entire last post.
Because that is what we're talking about here.
Not the red-herring/s you are trying to create.

I haven't used or owned the 800, I'll most probably get it or 710/900 in May.
Apparently you own it and the N9...
So far you've not outlined why Maemo6x's terrible for your usage comparatively speaking.
Yet you feel it's rational to claim that the N9's worse.
How could any objective person feel that your stance isn't pure fanboy-ism.

yeah go ahead, in fact i still looking for white n9, i just curious why TMO should defending nokia? they abandon us, are you never want to see maemo running on multicore? it deserved it,

Well speak up, you own the 800 and the N9 don't you?
Outline all the reasons why the 800's better for your usage than the N9.*
Remembering that your usage can/does vary between users.

As I said before, do that and you've made a solid case...
One that deserves respect as an opinion, not necessarily uniform agreement of course.
Anyone I'm done, I said my time here was limited, pointless debate is pointless.

*remembering that such a debate is derailing the original tenor of this thread:

I can't help you if you don't find facts and truths relevant. For the "N9" to be a believable flagship device, Maemo would have to be decided as the future Nokia smartphone OS at least 5 years ago. 5 years ago Symbian dominated the smartphone market, so that was out of the question. Even today Symbian is the most widely used smartphone OS.

But, history has shown very clearly that Nokia simply could not (for whatever reason) create the ultimate OS. Not fast enough and not good enough to compete with iOS and Android, therefore WP. But, very ironically, the Symbian-running N8 refused to die, and with Belle, it is among the best devices you can purchase. All the other Symbian devices fall short some way or the other, but not the N8. The N8 is still up there.

If the N9 did have Belle UI (but still running Harmattan), it could maybe stand a chance, but with Swipe it cannot. Very few will honestly recommend Swipe because it is not practical. Only fanboys would, the rest will say the same as me.