Originally Posted by Morpog

Could you all just stop and agree to disagree? We are discussing the same topic with the same arguments for a lot of pages now. I don't see any benefits from this.

Originally Posted by benny1967

So the good thing that this thread reveals is: There's no new information about anything Jolla did (or didn't) that might be seen as "intransparent" or "not open" in my book.

Instead, we're discussing different interpretations of the english language as used in a thread that is more than 6 months old and came to fame only because of trantrums and dramas by a person who allegedly didn't even own a Jolla device. I do accept that for some people, whatever they read in this thread may have caused negative emotions towards the company. The important thing for me is that if this is all the storm is about, I needn't change my mind any time soon.
(And it could have turned out differently. It could have been that there really are serious issues one should keep an eye on.)

That doesn't surprise me at all that Jolla hasn't responded yet. It's a known pattern for Jolla, not only in this case.

When there is a serious problem or they fail at something they put all possible effort to hide it instead of simply admitting that they failed with something and focusing more on possible solutions. Then, when unpleasant smell is all around and already too intensive to simply cover it with perfume - in other words when community boils or their clients heavily complain they slowly start to react. You can give countless examples:

* Preorders - probably everyone remembers that people that preordered were supposed to get phones before it hit the operator stores. Do you remember when apology came? When people that preordered where loudly complaining everywhere that it's unfair that a random person from a street in Helsinki can get the phone earlier before a person from Spain that preordered in May.

* Simcard holder problem - they weren't treating it entirely seriously until I've shown it to Marko Saukko (one of their more close to HW engineers) and demonstrated that it is indeed a HW problem on last FOSDEM. Then it finally resulted in actions, like agreeing to fixing that as a part of a guarantee.

* Neglecting collaboration with community in the open source parts - that is improving recently after a lot of buzz in the community, but how much time and complains had to pass before they admitted it is a problem and started to do anything about it.

For new candidates you can add:
* Silica Components and their open source status (who knows when they will be fully open sourced liked promised more than 1.25 year ago, not even a word about if that should be counted in weeks, months, years, decades or centuries...)

In my opinion their marketing/PR is just broken. You can stick posters to operator store, give balloons, do fancy photos and shout big words on stage, but I guess it's not what most of us here really expect from them in the first place.

It's fair to say that they are weak, fighting for their place on the
market and trying to figure out what their business model can be based on. But that doesn't have to mean giving up being fair to their clients, community and partners. I believe someone decisive there behind management or marketing is a perfectionist and doesn't give himself right to make mistakes. On admitting mistakes and apologizing for them you can build community/clients trust and respect. Sadly they seem to miss that fact through most of the time. The story of American company Enron should be a warning to Jolla employees and Jolla management. To those that do not know the story - magazine Fortune has listed Enron as the most innovative U.S. company for 6 years. One of the reasons that company collapsed was compulsive hiding of problems and doing everything to keep up their image of being perfect. Old (smartphone) Nokia went similar path, missing market and being ineffective to changes, slowly reacting to revolution that came with iPhone and Android phones. Hope that management in Jolla is wise enough to not follow the same path, otherwise ship might sink. Who will be responsible for that? Neither their clients nor their community.

Originally Posted by fk_lx

Nobody forces you to read this thread. In most of your posts you either try to discredit me or other people claiming they are my multiple accounts or trying to end discussion. TMO is forum, it is for discussion.

Originally Posted by pango

The "we're sticking stamps on your packages right now" is especially cringeworthy as it simply wasn't true

Originally Posted by fk_lx

Nobody forces you to read this thread. In most of your posts you either try to discredit me or other people claiming they are my multiple accounts or trying to end discussion. TMO is forum, it is for discussion.

Originally Posted by benny1967

Both explanations are possible, the database corruption and the champagne scene. Which one you think was true is your choice.