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2011-06-02
, 14:07
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Posts: 40 |
Thanked: 14 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
@ Mobile
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#1912
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Originally Posted by EvilSpeaks
Except Nokia is not well positioned to succeed as merely an OEM.
Unfortunately at 1:09 he admits what we already know, Nokia are just another OEM!!!
He gets that now the market is about ecosystems, but basically took the easy way in deciding to not even try to be an ecosystem player.
Granted backing S60 as an ecosystem of the future was flawed. Backing Meego as the base for an ecosystem of today was also flawed Personally I think the biggest mistake was the misshandling of using Maemo as a bigger part of the roadmap....it was abandoned in a dmaging way and in fact to early.
Maybe giving up was the right choice....but the result is still a death spiral with no way out, as being a hardware supplier to a ecosystem is not a viable future for any company other that one based around earning revenues by running the production line.
Strange thing is I suggest there is a viable ecosystem out there which can be build on using Maemo and Meego together as a roadmap - provided the community members feel there is a roadmap with transitions rather than dead ends. Maybe it is not a big enough ecosystem to support a company the size of Nokia.....but strange if Nokia doesn't want that community at all that no-one else seizes the opportunity.
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2011-06-02
, 18:44
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Posts: 95 |
Thanked: 28 times |
Joined on Oct 2010
@ UK
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#1913
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i read this too and if theres any truth to the specualtion then 
a. nokia could have differentiated themselves by pushing MeeGo / Maemo on to more devices, now they can just be yet another Windows Phone liscencee ... . ugh
b. Microsoft want everthing, from consoles to pc's, servers, datacentres for clouds, the empty freqencies and now the only company pushing mobile devices with a decent open source OS.
“Lead, follow, or get out of the way.” (Thomas Paine)
looks like nokia are going with the latter options.
On the upside someone HAS to recognise the market for a lin based mobile pc/phone ... perhaps we will get something better out of nokias idiocy (presuming that theres much truth to all this)
Last edited by mrexcess; 2011-06-02 at 19:33.
a. nokia could have differentiated themselves by pushing MeeGo / Maemo on to more devices, now they can just be yet another Windows Phone liscencee ... . ugh
b. Microsoft want everthing, from consoles to pc's, servers, datacentres for clouds, the empty freqencies and now the only company pushing mobile devices with a decent open source OS.
“Lead, follow, or get out of the way.” (Thomas Paine)
looks like nokia are going with the latter options.
On the upside someone HAS to recognise the market for a lin based mobile pc/phone ... perhaps we will get something better out of nokias idiocy (presuming that theres much truth to all this)
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Last edited by mrexcess; 2011-06-02 at 19:33.
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2011-06-02
, 18:47
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Posts: 11,700 |
Thanked: 10,045 times |
Joined on Jun 2006
@ North Texas, USA
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#1914
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Originally Posted by mrexcess
Google insists they have.
On the upside someone HAS to recognise the market for a lin based mobile pc/phone ...
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Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
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2011-06-02
, 18:57
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Posts: 95 |
Thanked: 28 times |
Joined on Oct 2010
@ UK
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#1915
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Originally Posted by Texrat
Google insists they have.
lol not even close
Plus... who wants to wander in under the cosy wing of another giant monopoly? ms / google they present different fronts but theyre becoming more and more similar every day
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2011-06-02
, 19:39
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Posts: 139 |
Thanked: 224 times |
Joined on Nov 2007
@ San Francisco, CA
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#1916
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Originally Posted by 9000
Not sure how you come to a EUR 100 billion market value???
Nokia has like EUR 100 billion present market value. It'd be a very challenging job if Elop could be able to sell Nokia to Microsoft for anything near $19 billion.
Right now NOK is valued at $24.5 billion, less than EUR 17.5 billion.
$19 billion for the handset business is not that far off.
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2011-06-02
, 19:40
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Banned |
Posts: 706 |
Thanked: 296 times |
Joined on May 2010
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#1917
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I am curious if it would have been better for Nokia to announce their partnership with WP device in hand. They are losing shares and their stock is plummeting spectacularly. They should have waited and worked behind the curtains.
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2011-06-03
, 01:44
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Posts: 1,425 |
Thanked: 983 times |
Joined on May 2010
@ Hong Kong
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#1918
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Originally Posted by cBeam
Thanks for your reply. Let me explain.
Not sure how you come to a EUR 100 billion market value???
Right now NOK is valued at $24.5 billion, less than EUR 17.5 billion.
$19 billion for the handset business is not that far off.
You assumed the current stock price x no. of stock issued in a single exchange market = total present market value of the corporation. This is common mistake that a student would made in an examination.
Say, It's not like you can buy the entire Nokia if you've 24.5 billion on your disposal. The stock price would be hypering up immensely once you acquired more than 5% of the total shares in the NYSE.
There are many other factors taking into consideration. Options issued for one is a major factor that affect the present market value.
Also, you assumed stocks exchanged in NYSE represent everything in Nokia. There might be many major stakeholders of a corp outside of one single exchange market. Therefore, we always rely on financial evaluators to perform valuation of a corp, or buy some expensive financial reports.
I got this figure from a paid european financial report I read weeks ago. I didn't look into detail how they come up with this figure and I believe their valuation would be biased for a Finland company, but I don't own and has not intention to own any Nokia's stock anyway.
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[HOWTO] N900 Bluetooth-PAN Tethering (N900 supplies Internet Access for PC)
[HOWTO] N900 WiFi Hotspot (shell script version)
N900: Useful Tips (a summary)
[HOWTO] N900 Bluetooth-PAN Tethering (N900 supplies Internet Access for PC)
[HOWTO] N900 WiFi Hotspot (shell script version)
N900: Useful Tips (a summary)
Last edited by 9000; 2011-06-03 at 01:50.
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2011-06-03
, 02:13
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Posts: 619 |
Thanked: 691 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
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#1919
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Thats true what you said - but its also true that the price pays and all else is conjecture. You might have a expensive paid report, but its still an opinion at the end as the "price" of Nokia is the combined opinion of all Nokia owners.
The only way to get a "real" price is to test the market by announcing a takeover, at which point the share price will most likely shoot up - but by how much nobody knows.
The only way to get a "real" price is to test the market by announcing a takeover, at which point the share price will most likely shoot up - but by how much nobody knows.
Originally Posted by 9000
Thanks for your reply. Let me explain.
You assumed the current stock price x no. of stock issued in a single exchange market = total present market value of the corporation. This is common mistake that a student would made in an examination.
Say, It's not like you can buy the entire Nokia if you've 24.5 billion on your disposal. The stock price would be hypering up immensely once you acquired more than 5% of the total shares in the NYSE.
There are many other factors taking into consideration. Options issued for one is a major factor that affect the present market value.
Also, you assumed stocks exchanged in NYSE represent everything in Nokia. There might be many major stakeholders of a corp outside of one single exchange market. Therefore, we always rely on financial evaluators to perform valuation of a corp, or buy some expensive financial reports.
I got this figure from a paid european financial report I read weeks ago. I didn't look into detail how they come up with this figure and I believe their valuation would be biased for a Finland company, but I don't own and has not intention to own any Nokia's stock anyway.
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2011-06-03
, 02:46
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Posts: 1,425 |
Thanked: 983 times |
Joined on May 2010
@ Hong Kong
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#1920
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Originally Posted by Frappacino
Sane acquisitor would not 'test the market' this way on M&A a listed company listed. It'd happen in Japan, where percentage of privately owned shares are very high, but it is rarely seen in other exchange markets, where there are regulations on the percentage of shares a single entity could own.
Thats true what you said - but its also true that the price pays and all else is conjecture. You might have a expensive paid report, but its still an opinion at the end as the "price" of Nokia is the combined opinion of all Nokia owners.
The only way to get a "real" price is to test the market by announcing a takeover, at which point the share price will most likely shoot up - but by how much nobody knows.
During the takeover (we'd normall announce as acquisition), the total present value of a corp is being evaluated, at this stage we really need to hire a group of real financial evaulators. The report would then be used in the M&A negotiation. The amount of M&A would be agreed and endorsed, options issued would then be executed.
Of course there exists hostile M&A, where negotiation is done under table with major stakeholders so as to acquired enough voting-stocks to influence the decision of the board to pass unfavorable deals to the rest of the stakeholders.
No matter which method, M&A of a listed company is not an easy task, and that requires highly experienced and talented mind to complete the deal. Elop is one of the famous figure in financial world who has the experience, capabilities and resources to close deals as such.
Financial sectors in general know what Elop is up to when he assumed the duty of Nokia. It's expected that the future strategies of Nokia would entirely head toward the M&A path, through, say, devaluation of stocks by periodic announcement of bad news, cutting down the divisions where company life is depending on, layoff of key personnels, etc.
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[HOWTO] N900 Bluetooth-PAN Tethering (N900 supplies Internet Access for PC)
[HOWTO] N900 WiFi Hotspot (shell script version)
N900: Useful Tips (a summary)
[HOWTO] N900 Bluetooth-PAN Tethering (N900 supplies Internet Access for PC)
[HOWTO] N900 WiFi Hotspot (shell script version)
N900: Useful Tips (a summary)
Last edited by 9000; 2011-06-03 at 02:58.
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| bye-nokia, i don't even, just shoot him, just shoot me, let's elope, lockdown, meego?fail, negatron dan, nokia defiled, nokia suicide, sell tulips, step 8 out of 5, the-end?, www.elop.org |
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All times are GMT. The time now is 17:31.
URGH.
The title should be changed to "How the CEO is trying the lead Nokia into its epic fail of market share dwindling, stock cratering, persistent takeover talk?"
However, I'm afraid Elop is taking the challenge pretty well and working on the right track to make Nokia's stocks approaching junk level.
[HOWTO] N900 Bluetooth-PAN Tethering (N900 supplies Internet Access for PC)
[HOWTO] N900 WiFi Hotspot (shell script version)
N900: Useful Tips (a summary)
Last edited by 9000; 2011-06-02 at 09:24.