Jolla Tablet Refunds (latest developments) - Page 194 - maemo.org

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JulmaHerra	2015-11-20 , 12:04
Posts: 285 \| Thanked: 1,900 times \| Joined on Feb 2010	#1931

Originally Posted by ste-phan

Are those two not likely to converge especially when Intex sees this crisis as an opportunity to get a grip on and majority participation in Jolla?

Possibly. It depends on Jolla's shareholders if they are willing to sell, also trying to aquire company against the will of current staff would be a risky move for them as it doesn't really take that many disgrunted employees to leave and they would be in trouble trying to fetch it all back together with new people - especially if they don't really have in house expertise for such development. But still, anything is possible and such move might guarantee the longer term future for Sailfish OS in some form (which might or might not be something we actually want). We live thrilling times once more - feeling like I'm getting too old for this... :P

I even see the Jolla first line support department moving to India to match location of the then biggest future Jolla market.

After all Jolla has been without service center for quite a while (the writings were on the wall quite a long time already in those service related posts "bear with us" ).

True. Without local first line support it's very difficult to support the customers. Maybe it's not like moving it all to India, if they intend to reach western markets, but at least found another service center run by Intex to support Sailfish OS based devices made by Jolla and Intex. However, I doubt investors are willing to fund Jolla-branded devices any longer, but want them to concentrate on software and manufacturer deals.

	pichlo	2015-11-20 , 12:17
	Posts: 6,450 \| Thanked: 20,983 times \| Joined on Sep 2012 @ UK	#1932

Originally Posted by Copernicus

And in any case, you're missing my point -- there's no tablets without money, but with money, tablets will happen.

Sometimes, a diagram helps

Code:

Money  Tablets	
  ×       ×      possible
  ×       √      not possible
  √       ×      not possible
  √       √      possible

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att	2015-11-20 , 12:27
Posts: 388 \| Thanked: 1,340 times \| Joined on Nov 2007 @ Finland	#1933

Originally Posted by pichlo

Can you spell "denial"?

Why I would want to spell it?

billranton	2015-11-20 , 12:31
Posts: 307 \| Thanked: 1,460 times \| Joined on May 2011 @ Switzerland	#1934

Originally Posted by pichlo

You don't get it, do you? Nothing you say makes a shred of difference to Jolla. They have their mouths full of words like "people driven" but that is just PR to fool naiive peole like you. They are a corporation and their decisions are made by the management.

Sorry, I think you have an unreasonably cynical view of this. Yes, Jolla is a company, but at the end of the day they have to pay people and to pay people they need cash. That cash has to come from somewhere and will have strings attached to it. I don't think you have any good reason to say that Jolla don't listen - sure they don't always do what their customers ask for, and they've been known to go back on things. But the fact is that people can post long rants about Jolla on Together often on baseless assumptions, and they don't get removed. Contrast that to some larger companies who have no public forum, or if they do then it's heavily moderated to not allow any critical commentary. Yes these guys may have failed from time to time (and they're not even done yet), but the very fact that you know about that means that they've communicated and listened more than most.

I worry sometimes that a lot of people round here won't know what they had until it's gone. It's really easy to sit in your armchairs and bray about how you would have done things differently. These guys actually took the risk, stepped up and are trying to do something that they believe in. I am very grateful for that.

	pichlo	2015-11-20 , 12:50
	Posts: 6,450 \| Thanked: 20,983 times \| Joined on Sep 2012 @ UK	#1935

"Letting people rant" and "listening to people's rant" is not the same thing. Besides, Jolla does not have to moderate TJC. They have a lot of minions doing their moderation for them. Any even marginally critical voice is immediately stamped to the ground.

So yes, on a scale from 1 to 10, they may be about 3 in terms of "listening to the community". That is certainly better than some other corporations that are 1 or even 0 on that scale. But they and some of their most die-hard fans act like they are 11.

All this discussion started by ste-phan wondering what would have happened if the community had decided not to support the tablet. And I maintain that such a community decision would have had absolutely zero impact.

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tommo	2015-11-20 , 13:06
Posts: 435 \| Thanked: 1,599 times \| Joined on Dec 2010	#1936

I've been thinking for a while what would have happened if they stopped funding when they reached the target (was it $400k?)
I guess we would end up at the same place, but sooner or would have been easier to manage?

billranton	2015-11-20 , 13:09
Posts: 307 \| Thanked: 1,460 times \| Joined on May 2011 @ Switzerland	#1937

Originally Posted by pichlo

"Letting people rant" and "listening to people's rant" is not the same thing. Besides, Jolla does not have to moderate TJC. They have a lot of minions doing their moderation for them. Any even marginally critical voice is immediately stamped to the ground.

I haven't seen much 'stamped into the ground' over there, but when I have it's been when someone's been behaving like an arsehole. That wasn't done by minions or henchmen or whatever word people choose for people who don't agree with them, it was by other members of the community who are trying to make this whole thing work constructively. I don't think I've seen anyone's posts get deleted, though I've seen a few arseholes try to aggrandize what they're saying by claiming that will happen. Just people getting called out when they get carried away.

"Letting people rant" and "listening to people's rant" are the same thing here. I haven't seen anything to suggest that they don't see most of what's posted on TJC. Plenty of Jolla employees have responsed to questions, and lots of suggestions have been implemented. They still have a choice, a qualified, professional, experienced choice in what they implement and what they don't.

	Copernicus	2015-11-20 , 13:16
	Posts: 1,986 \| Thanked: 7,698 times \| Joined on Dec 2010 @ Dayton, Ohio	#1938

Originally Posted by tommo

I've been thinking for a while what would have happened if they stopped funding when they reached the target (was it $400k?)
I guess we would end up at the same place, but sooner or would have been easier to manage?

It wouldn't have mattered in the least. The tablet cost way more to produce than the amount received from the Indiegogo campaign; they'd have needed to get something like an order of magnitude _more_ backers to have received the kind of money they needed to keep Jolla running.

The Indiegogo campaign was, for the most part, an advertising campaign for Sailfish. One that helped to pay for itself somewhat, but certainly not one that provided anything like a profit to Jolla...

MartinK	2015-11-20 , 13:38
Posts: 1,548 \| Thanked: 7,510 times \| Joined on Apr 2010 @ Czech Republic	#1939

Originally Posted by billranton

I worry sometimes that a lot of people round here won't know what they had until it's gone. It's really easy to sit in your armchairs and bray about how you would have done things differently. These guys actually took the risk, stepped up and are trying to do something that they believe in. I am very grateful for that.

While many people do engage in nonsensical rants please note that many of us have been there since the N900 and N9 (or even longer!) and it would be pretty stupid to stay silent if you see the same mistakes being repeated for the second (or even a third!) time.

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zenecho	2015-11-20 , 14:07
Posts: 71 \| Thanked: 621 times \| Joined on Sep 2010 @ UK	#1940

Originally Posted by billranton

I worry sometimes that a lot of people round here won't know what they had until it's gone. It's really easy to sit in your armchairs and bray about how you would have done things differently. These guys actually took the risk, stepped up and are trying to do something that they believe in. I am very grateful for that.

Really?

I have a Jolla phone that I love, that is now probably locked in time.

I have a tablet case for a tablet that Im never going to get

What have we actually got now?