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	fravaccaro	2016-06-21 , 20:27
	Posts: 52 \| Thanked: 143 times \| Joined on Mar 2013 @ Rome, Italy	#11

Weeeeell I opened a ticket on zendesk, but since my phone is from 2014 I doubt it's covered by any warranty. And the Jolla C is (hopefully) on its way, so I'd rather use my device as a 'cavy' to help posterity which may stumble upon such issue (and since you too had it it may not be that uncommon, unluckily) - and if it works I'll have a secondary phone to continue my programming tests and community will have a fix

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When I don't blog, I attempt to other people' phone integrity with DynCal, DynClock and Theme pack support.

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nodevel	2016-06-21 , 21:34
Posts: 752 \| Thanked: 2,808 times \| Joined on Jan 2011 @ Czech Republic	#12

Originally Posted by fravaccaro

Weeeeell I opened a ticket on zendesk, but since my phone is from 2014 I doubt it's covered by any warranty. And the Jolla C is (hopefully) on its way, so I'd rather use my device as a 'cavy' to help posterity which may stumble upon such issue (and since you too had it it may not be that uncommon, unluckily) - and if it works I'll have a secondary phone to continue my programming tests and community will have a fix

I am very sorry to hear your device is bricked. Let's hope you'll find a way to revive it.

I indeed hope that your case is going to be a warning for everyone who might think about installing pre-pre-pre-release version the shady way. PSA: There is no reason to install them, so don't do it, guys.
No "Don't install it unless you really need it." or "Don't install it unless you know what you're doing", just "Don't.".

I don't think anything good can come from installing these releases even if nothing goes wrong. People share info about new features in the release, which A) spoils all surprises B) motivates new people to try to install it, because they feel left behind. And the argument about developers being able to test their apps against the changes is IMHO invalid, as an official pre-release program already exists.

Then they spam TJC with bug reports which have little to no value, because they have no connection to Jolla's internal bugs - when a pre-release version is announced officially, you always get info about known issues and if the issue you're experiencing is not among them you can be pretty sure it is not tracked by Jolla and your bug report is needed and valuable. Without such connection, it just fills TJC and confuses potential customers who might visit TJC and see those critical bugs.
Also everyone who follows these pre-pre-pre-release TMO threads can see how many people have problems with partial upgrades (almost everyone) and it is quite likely that a good part of their reported bugs is a result of this rather than a bug in the release itself.

Finally, if more bricks occur, it might push Jolla to prevent this by locking the repositories access to Jolla accounts or even devices IMEIs... Which is something nobody wants. And also each brick means one device that could have been used by someone in this community - it is sold out in Jolla's E-shop and obtaining a used one is becoming more difficult already. I'm guilty of recently killing one Jolla with a drop on concrete floor and I don't feel good about it either

Last edited by nodevel; 2016-06-21 at 21:57.

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	fravaccaro	2016-06-21 , 22:34
	Posts: 52 \| Thanked: 143 times \| Joined on Mar 2013 @ Rome, Italy	#13

Thanks

You're absolutely right and I sincerely agree on everything you said. I've actually been testing pre-release software from the 1.1.6 update onwards and:

- I've never advertised such a way to install updates on jollait (which is the community I'm of course more focused on) nor shared my way to sniff unreleased software.
- My reviews/posts where posted after the early access release date, to avoid spoilers or people trying to update and flood tjc with bug reports related to non-final products.

I used to update in this fashion both to prepare the stuff I need for the blog well in advance, instead of rushing to post a weak, incomplete and superficial article/video (I'm not a member of any pre-release group unluckily - albeit such a program would benefit bloggers too) - and of course because I'm a curious human being (oh and it was useful to test my DynCal, DynClock, tps scripts against the changes done on the 2.0.1, too).

I decided to openly talk about my issue also because this pre-release software bubble's already exploded (tmo, tjc, telegram) and although I'm still not sure whether it can be linked to 2.0.2 I prefered to admit my mistake and try to warn other people (as my post on the 2.0.2 thread) with a direct experience about the risks they take when they update.

It's not that hard actually - RCH has some refurbished and unsold Jolla1 in stock if you still need one!

Last edited by fravaccaro; 2016-06-21 at 22:40.

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	pichlo	2016-06-22 , 05:47
	Posts: 6,447 \| Thanked: 20,981 times \| Joined on Sep 2012 @ UK	#14

nodevel, whilst I can understand and even agree with some of your sentiments, I would not see it so black and white.
Here is why:

With Jolla, I feel like living on the edge all the time, like hurtling at 90 mph down a narrow country lane with a 40 mph speed limit. Anything can happen at any time. Installing an unofficial release is like speeding up from 90 to 95 mph: it increases the risk but not that much.
With Jolla, every system update is a game of Russian roulette. Just read the posts here or on TJC after every update. My first and only black screen happened on a brand new Jolla freshly out of the box, signed in to my home network and accepted the update.
2.0.2.4x is not some random build Jolla never meant for us to see. It has been released and given out with "development and community" devices. Jolla must have felt confident enough to do that, otherwise they would either not give out the devices or give them out with some older build. Or release the devices with whatever build but not make the build accessible for anyone else. In short, they could have done a lot of things but they did not deem it necessary.
Calling 2.0.2.4x bug reports on TJC "spam" and "useless" smacks of Dave999's style. Unless told otherwise, I assume that Jolla appreciates the reports exactly because it is a pre-early release. They even reply to some of those reports.
Lastly, I am not convinced that fravoccaro's problem has anything to do with 2.0.2.4x. I am not even convinced that it has anything to do with any system update, let alone an update to any specific build. He said he has rebooted a number of times after the update before the brick. I suspect his Jolla was already on the way out and the update was a red herring.

This is not to say that I would encourage people to rush into random updates. Please only do that if you are willing to accept the risk and do not do it if you need your Jolla's for anything important. But if you use them only for playing and do not mind losing your data, I don't see why not.

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nodevel	2016-06-22 , 09:56
Posts: 752 \| Thanked: 2,808 times \| Joined on Jan 2011 @ Czech Republic	#15

Originally Posted by pichlo

nodevel, whilst I can understand and even agree with some of your sentiments, I would not see it so black and white.

I know it isn't black & white, but I think it's better portrayed that way rather than how it is portrayed now. I personally don't care if people have a newer version or not and I think that you and fravaccaro know the risks, but then I see bunch of other people who have no idea what they're doing (definitely the vocal ones in those threads) and they are going to ruin it for the rest. We've seen how mad had some people gotten over the tablet fiasco, so I can only imagine how would it be if more bricks occurred, those people turned to Jolla Care and naturally got told that it's not covered by the warranty.

The problem I have is with the threads portraying it as normal and as easy as 2-3 commands in the terminal.

Originally Posted by pichlo

2.0.2.4x is not some random build Jolla never meant for us to see. It has been released and given out with "development and community" devices. Jolla must have felt confident enough to do that, otherwise they would either not give out the devices or give them out with some older build.

For all you know, it is a random build, especially if you have the first Jolla. Let's list some facts:

This release is essential for some of the functionality of the Intex Aquafish/Jolla C (dual SIM).
The Intex phone has been quite delayed. Yes, it could be a problem on Intex's side, but since the software update hasn't been released yet, I think that Jolla is definitely to blame as well.
The Intex partnership is crucial for Jolla and every delay on their side is hurting it.
Jolla (1) is now 30 months old - it's great that we are still getting updates, but we can hardly expect it to be a priority for the company, especially in their financial situation.
Guys who have installed the new release report newer hardware adaptation version for Jolla (1).
I haven't seen any of the important bug reports (non-functioning sound recorder, bricked device, no alarm sound, screen wakeup being reported by the Jolla C owners.

I am pretty sure Jolla C/Aquafish was the target device for this release and the optimizations for Jolla (1) will follow, but it is not made for it and since there are changes needed in the hardware adaptation, bricks and other problems are more than likely.

EDIT: Here you go, my conclusion is spot on.

Originally Posted by pichlo

Calling 2.0.2.4x bug reports on TJC "spam" and "useless" smacks of Dave999's style. Unless told otherwise, I assume that Jolla appreciates the reports exactly because it is a pre-early release. They even reply to some of those reports.

I can only speak for myself, but if I had an app on Github and someone built a version on OpenRepos after each of my commits and then people reported a dozen of issues after each of those commits, I would be pretty unhappy about the situation. Either way, it I could not tell people "don't report bugs", because I would not want to be rude and I would still appreciate more experienced eyes on my code. But like in other cases, 90% of the issues raised would likely come from people unfamiliar with the code or the difference between commits and releases, so I would probably stop commiting publicly which would be bad for me (no code overview) and for those who know how to build it and want to see new features while knowing it's not a final version.

Why would I stop?

I would not want regular people to have bad experience with my app - if I install an app and it works poorly, I don't give it a second chance very often.
If I tried to reply to all those bug reports, it would take me more time than coding.
If I did not reply to them, people would turn away and wouldn't report bugs once a real testing version is released.

Last edited by nodevel; 2016-06-22 at 10:05.

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	pichlo	2016-06-22 , 10:07
	Posts: 6,447 \| Thanked: 20,981 times \| Joined on Sep 2012 @ UK	#16

Originally Posted by nodevel

EDIT: Here you go, my conclusion is spot on.

Interesting. My reading of that post is that my conclusion was spot on

EDIT:
Re-reading your last post, I think you refer to the line above the one I quoted. In which case I fully agree with you. I was referring to this:

Originally Posted by pichlo

2.0.2.4x is not some random build Jolla never meant for us to see. It has been released and given out with "development and community" devices. Jolla must have felt confident enough to do that, otherwise they would either not give out the devices or give them out with some older build. Or release the devices with whatever build but not make the build accessible for anyone else. In short, they could have done a lot of things but they did not deem it necessary.

Calling 2.0.2.4x bug reports on TJC "spam" and "useless" smacks of Dave999's style. Unless told otherwise, I assume that Jolla appreciates the reports exactly because it is a pre-early release. They even reply to some of those reports.

This is not to say that I would encourage people to rush into random updates. Please only do that if you are willing to accept the risk and do not do it if you need your Jollas for anything important. But if you use them only for playing and do not mind losing your data, I don't see why not.

They even use the exact same words. It is almost uncanny

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Last edited by pichlo; 2016-06-22 at 10:17.

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nodevel	2016-06-22 , 10:12
Posts: 752 \| Thanked: 2,808 times \| Joined on Jan 2011 @ Czech Republic	#17

Originally Posted by pichlo

Interesting. My reading of that post is that my conclusion was spot on

I meant my conclusion about how it is not a release Jolla meant to see on Jolla (1) or Jolla Tablet, as it is mainly targeted for Jolla C. I'm sure now that the first Jolla C devices are out, they will try to adapt it to Jolla (1) as well.

And I take it they appreciate the 2.0.2.43 bug reports from Jolla C (I haven't seen many of those yet).

EDIT: Reading your edit, I think we pretty much much agree. I was merely trying to take a more uncompromising stance in order to discourage the less experienced from installing these updates. I'm not sure if those will read such long posts, though

Last edited by nodevel; 2016-06-26 at 17:58.

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	nthn	2016-06-22 , 16:00
	Posts: 764 \| Thanked: 2,888 times \| Joined on Jun 2014	#18

Originally Posted by nodevel

A) spoils all surprises

If you use software for the surprises, I guess it must get boring really quickly. Maybe spoiling surprises is also not always a bad thing, either (in fact, I recall reading that spoilers actually enhance rather than diminish enjoyment of whatever was spoiled). I don't think many people would complain getting the surprise spoiled that the new update deletes all your files when you connect to the internet, either.

Originally Posted by pichlo

With Jolla, I feel like living on the edge all the time, like hurtling at 90 mph down a narrow country lane with a 40 mph speed limit. Anything can happen at any time. Installing an unofficial release is like speeding up from 90 to 95 mph: it increases the risk but not that much.

Ha!

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objectifnul	2016-06-26 , 14:43
Posts: 57 \| Thanked: 140 times \| Joined on May 2015	#19

Just for information, my device was also bricked after upgrade from Saimaa to Taalojärvi failed then recovery mode/factory reset failed too after having returned "Recovery procedure terminated SUCCESSFULLY! Now cleaning up..." (then nothing happened until I removed the battery, two hours later).

Recovery mode now unavailable. No device detected on USB.

Submitted a ticket at Zendesk, but they are in vacation from June 18 until August 1st. Ticket closed automatically. So we have one and a half month with zero customer support.

Anyway I should have done like for previous upgrades: factory reset FIRST (after back-up of course). Fortunately I do have a back-up of /home and /etc.