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qwerty12's Avatar
Posts: 4,274 | Thanked: 5,358 times | Joined on Sep 2007 @ Looking at y'all and sighing
#11
Originally Posted by marktold View Post
- Media Player
IMHO, it looks pretty shitty there:



You wouldn't convince Nokia to use the smaller bar, either, as it goes against the finger-friendly aspect of Fremantle.
(No, they aren't mockups; I can barely draw to save my life, **** using Photoshop)
 
pelago's Avatar
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#12
I agree that kinetic scrolling looks cool, but is not particularly useful with large lists. If Nokia want to keep a clean look, why not (as now) have the scrollbar only appear after you start kinetic scrolling, then allow a finger to use the scrollbar directly, and still have it disappear after a few seconds of not being used?

Do other mobile devices with kinetic scrolling have any good scrollbar solutions?

By the way, I wish this thread could just be called "Scrollbar" or something, as it has nothing to do with portrait mode!
 
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#13
Originally Posted by qwerty12 View Post
IMHO, it looks pretty shitty there:

It wouldn't have to look THAT shitty, though...

Maybe something like this:
Attached Images
 
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#14
@qwerty12

Once you are at my age you will know that looks not everyhing. Sometimes fuctionallity beats looks :-)

If you go to your calander you will see that if you scroll it up and down a scrollbar on the right side will show up so you know where you are.

I would be happy enough if this scrollbar would be dragable (even if I had to use a sylus)

To me this are only minor adjustments most probably most would not notice but the whole of it make a difference.

If typing for search would be supported I would not mind so much. If I am in File Manager and search for a Artist in my Music for example i can not just type Elvis and it will take me to E like in contacts. so I nedd to scroll down. and never know really where it will stop when I need to go back a couple of times.

(I had to delete some DRM protected music in a whole heap of folder - that was a pain in the neck)

Regards Markus
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https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8844

missing a scrollbar? Vote here:http://maemo.org/community/brainstor...tic_scrolling/

Add quickbar (ABC, DEF, ...) in the Contact App. Vote here:http://maemo.org/community/brainstor..._address_book/
 
qwerty12's Avatar
Posts: 4,274 | Thanked: 5,358 times | Joined on Sep 2007 @ Looking at y'all and sighing
#15
Originally Posted by marktold View Post
Once you are at my age you will know that looks not everyhing. Sometimes fuctionallity beats looks :-)
I bought an N800 - don't you think I know that?

No, I mean "shitty" as in:
  • The stupid "equalizer" thing covers the down arrow on the large scrollbar in the list of all songs.
  • The time information is chopped off in the Now Playing view.

Best Regards,
Faheem

Last edited by qwerty12; 2010-02-10 at 17:26.
 
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#16
Originally Posted by epage View Post
I guess to add scrollbars generally serve the following purposes
  • Incremental scroll (covered by kinetic scrolling)
  • Reminder at where in a document one is (only shown with kinetic scrolling when scrolling)
  • Jump to top
  • Jump to bottom
  • Raise awareness of being able to scroll
  • Jump to approx area (In an alphabetical list, one could guess a name with P would be about 2/3 the way through).

Am I missing anything?

I doubt we will change Nokia's mind on kinetic scrolling. The problem with both is duplicate means to an end that either takes up a large amount of screen space or is only usable with a stylus. We've seen this with previous versions of Maemo which ran on devices with larger screens.

What we can do is come up with ways to solve the missing features of kinetic scrolling without hurting the user experience.
It doesn't really take up more space.
The scroll bar can still be kept slim, but the sensitive area is wider than it looks so you still can use finger. It can still be as wide as in the sample picture shown, just you don't see it.
So, if your finger drags near the scroll bar, it moves the scroll bar, If it's to the left of the scroll bar's senstiive area, it does kinetic scrolling.

Acutally, I'm writing a BREW application on LG VX11K with kinetic scrolling and scroll bar for fast scrolling, so I know that will work with finger.
 
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#17
Originally Posted by pycage View Post
It wouldn't have to look THAT shitty, though...

Maybe something like this:
That actually doesn't look good, is confusing as to what it even means, and still takes up a lot of space (or do we deal with weird user interaction/confusion when the scroll tab is covering user content?

Originally Posted by mcdull View Post
It doesn't really take up more space.
The scroll bar can still be kept slim, but the sensitive area is wider than it looks so you still can use finger. It can still be as wide as in the sample picture shown, just you don't see it.
So, if your finger drags near the scroll bar, it moves the scroll bar, If it's to the left of the scroll bar's senstiive area, it does kinetic scrolling.

Acutally, I'm writing a BREW application on LG VX11K with kinetic scrolling and scroll bar for fast scrolling, so I know that will work with finger.
If the sensitive area is wider, how do you click through to app content within it?

EDIT: and for us who have used Maemo pre-5.0, finger scrollbars take up a lot of space, and that is on a larger screen.
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epage's Avatar
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#18
Sometimes I think we get too caught up in our solutions (small scrollbars, wide scrollbars, kinetic) that we don't step back to see what the problem we are trying to solve is to find a new solution that works within our constrained environment.

And by environment I include Nokia committing to finger friendliness, small screens, and kinetic scrolling.
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Posts: 229 | Thanked: 77 times | Joined on Aug 2009 @ Los Angeles
#19
Originally Posted by epage View Post
That actually doesn't look good, is confusing as to what it even means, and still takes up a lot of space (or do we deal with weird user interaction/confusion when the scroll tab is covering user content?



If the sensitive area is wider, how do you click through to app content within it?

EDIT: and for us who have used Maemo pre-5.0, finger scrollbars take up a lot of space, and that is on a larger screen.
Click is registered only when the finger/stylus leaves the screen, tha'ts how it has been doing in any system.

So, like in kinetic scrolling, if you have moved/dragged the finger before removing from the screen, it's registered as scroll. If you finger stays around the same area and released, it's registerd as click.

The scrolll bar works the same, you can't use it as regular scroll bar by clicking a point on the scroll bar to jump to that section, but you can still drag the scroll bar button to move up and down and from top to bottom really quick. If you release the finger wihout moving in the scroll bar's senitive area, it triggers a click on that location.
 
epage's Avatar
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#20
Originally Posted by mcdull View Post
Click is registered only when the finger/stylus leaves the screen, tha'ts how it has been doing in any system.

So, like in kinetic scrolling, if you have moved/dragged the finger before removing from the screen, it's registered as scroll. If you finger stays around the same area and released, it's registerd as click.

The scrolll bar works the same, you can't use it as regular scroll bar by clicking a point on the scroll bar to jump to that section, but you can still drag the scroll bar button to move up and down and from top to bottom really quick. If you release the finger wihout moving in the scroll bar's senitive area, it triggers a click on that location.
So let's see if I get this. What you are basically purposing is that there is a reserved area where the normal kinetic operations are turned into scroll operations? Kind of like how some trackpads on laptops have a special area for scrolling verse mouse movement?

So its not a full traditional scrollbar and does not cause application interference anymore than kinetic scrolling does.

I find it interesting. The main concern I would have is discoverability. Users might just perceive it as arbitrary/random behavior

I guess it would also cause issues with users having to care where they do their kinetic swipes.
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Last edited by epage; 2010-02-10 at 17:47. Reason: Typo
 
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