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2014-05-15
, 19:35
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Posts: 915 |
Thanked: 3,209 times |
Joined on Jan 2011
@ Germany
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#12
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First of all, @Nikolaus:
Thank you for these very clear and honest words!
I hope this doesn't sound too much like "I told you..." but this situation is exactly what I was referring to some pages ago.
I'm aware that this project has and (hopefully) will always be on a knife's edge until we will (maybe) hold the finished devices in our hands, but retrospectively I must say that I'm a bit disappointed in your information politics.
Instead of multiple "finally sorting out"s I would have preferred some more "we don't know"s.
The way it is now it's unlikely I'll believe any more sentences containiing the word "finally".
That being said, I'm looking forward to any convincing(!) info anouncing the project will actually go on.
Good luck - to all of us!
Thank you for these very clear and honest words!
Originally Posted by dos1
So while it may not be dead, it clearly is in a coma.
The project is not canceled unless we clearly announce that, and as you probably noticed, we haven't yet.
I hope this doesn't sound too much like "I told you..." but this situation is exactly what I was referring to some pages ago.
I'm aware that this project has and (hopefully) will always be on a knife's edge until we will (maybe) hold the finished devices in our hands, but retrospectively I must say that I'm a bit disappointed in your information politics.
Instead of multiple "finally sorting out"s I would have preferred some more "we don't know"s.
The way it is now it's unlikely I'll believe any more sentences containiing the word "finally".
That being said, I'm looking forward to any convincing(!) info anouncing the project will actually go on.
Good luck - to all of us!
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2014-05-15
, 19:57
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Posts: 1,974 |
Thanked: 1,834 times |
Joined on Mar 2013
@ india
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#13
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The project has stumbled but still far from dead as it seems by avove posts
somebody told me its end of the world only when you decide. So we need to stop panicking spreading fud and step up when conditions are again favourable lets see what jeorg has on the table
somebody told me its end of the world only when you decide. So we need to stop panicking spreading fud and step up when conditions are again favourable lets see what jeorg has on the table
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2014-05-15
, 20:06
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Posts: 257 |
Thanked: 2,053 times |
Joined on Sep 2010
@ Warsaw, Poland
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#14
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Originally Posted by nokiabot
Don't set you expectations too high though, we hardly have anything on the table right now - only some vague ideas yet to consider.
lets see what jeorg has on the table
That doesn't mean that we won't have soon (or later in future), but it also doesn't mean that we will. We simply don't know yet. Let's see. Right now we're all exhausted, especially Joerg, so don't expect anything big coming in next hours. Your patience is appreciated.
I agree with sulu, more open "don't knows" where applicable for sure wouldn't and won't hurt. We definitely failed on that. I didn't want to look like a fool constantly changing what I say, but now I see that the way I took wasn't a perfect way to deal with it as well. Sorry once again.
__________________
Sebastian Krzyszkowiak - https://dosowisko.net/
Long term Openmoko supporter. Owner of two Neo Freerunners, a few N900s and some others too.
Future owner of the Neo900
Sebastian Krzyszkowiak - https://dosowisko.net/
Long term Openmoko supporter. Owner of two Neo Freerunners, a few N900s and some others too.
Future owner of the Neo900
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2014-05-15
, 20:16
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Posts: 1,092 |
Thanked: 4,995 times |
Joined on Dec 2009
@ beautiful cave
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#15
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If i understood Nikolaus correct, the main problem is, that there are/were two project leaders which are/were discordant in some relevant points. In my opinion it's always difficult to have two leaders. It's always better to have One or three. So why don't let a third person decide in such unclear situation. This can be a person which is respected by both and which have to be involved in the project. Or it can be the community. But then there has to be a lot of transparency in direction to the community, so it can understand the nuances of the points of view. That would also bring a lot of work, because every thing has to be illustrated in every detail. So in the end it would be better when it is a real person.
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2014-05-15
, 20:22
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Posts: 13 |
Thanked: 126 times |
Joined on Apr 2014
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#16
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Originally Posted by peterleinchen
Please don't be discouraged.
Nothing to add, sorry.
DIScouraging.
We are working on a solution so that Jörg can continue and complete the Neo900 project alone (or with old and new partners or however he decides).
Such things happen in business. And sometimes it opens up the path to better solutions than before.
Last edited by gta04; 2014-05-15 at 20:41.
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2014-05-15
, 20:23
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Posts: 13 |
Thanked: 126 times |
Joined on Apr 2014
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#17
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Originally Posted by pichlo
Yes, please.
Come on, it does not take THAT much to create a PayPal account in the name Neo900 GmbH or whatever. This is an inconvenience but not the end of the world. Let's just wait for what Jörg says, shall we?
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2014-05-15
, 20:32
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Posts: 257 |
Thanked: 2,053 times |
Joined on Sep 2010
@ Warsaw, Poland
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#18
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Originally Posted by Fellfrosch
It's not only the matter of differing opinions, but also about responsibility and liability. If we had taken the Neo900 UG route right from the beginning, it would be much easier. It took some time from idea inception to start of fundraising - but it turns out that it should have taken even longer with all the details already worked out back then. Well, that's definitely something to take a lesson from.
If i understood Nikolaus correct, the main problem is, that there are/were two project leaders which are/were discordant in some relevant points. In my opinion it's always difficult to have two leaders. It's always better to have One or three. So why don't let a third person decide in such unclear situation. This can be a person which is respected by both and which have to be involved in the project. Or it can be the community. But then there has to be a lot of transparency in direction to the community, so it can understand the nuances of the points of view. That would also bring a lot of work, because every thing has to be illustrated in every detail. So in the end it would be better when it is a real person.
Anyway, I'd like to thank all of you for your amazing support that we received. It's a great community (well, two of them - Maemo and Openmoko/OpenPhoenux combined) that I'm proud to be part of!
But rest assured that I don't want this "thank you" to be a "good bye" one, so there's no reason to panic
__________________
Sebastian Krzyszkowiak - https://dosowisko.net/
Long term Openmoko supporter. Owner of two Neo Freerunners, a few N900s and some others too.
Future owner of the Neo900
Sebastian Krzyszkowiak - https://dosowisko.net/
Long term Openmoko supporter. Owner of two Neo Freerunners, a few N900s and some others too.
Future owner of the Neo900
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2014-05-15
, 20:33
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Posts: 13 |
Thanked: 126 times |
Joined on Apr 2014
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#19
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Originally Posted by Fellfrosch
Exactly. We had two leaders and the order page said: "The project is run jointly by Jörg Reisenweber (Openmoko Veteran) and Nikolaus Schaller (OpenPhoenux / GTA04)".
If i understood Nikolaus correct, the main problem is, that there are/were two project leaders which are/were discordant in some relevant points. In my opinion it's always difficult to have two leaders. It's always better to have One or three. So why don't let a third person decide in such unclear situation. This can be a person which is respected by both and which have to be involved in the project. Or it can be the community. But then there has to be a lot of transparency in direction to the community, so it can understand the nuances of the points of view. That would also bring a lot of work, because every thing has to be illustrated in every detail. So in the end it would be better when it is a real person.
Therefore I finally came to the conclusion: two is one too much.
Yes, one more could have helped, but it is difficult to involve another person in the middle of a project. It might even slow down discussions and decisions because of different knowledge levels.
So in summary: Jörg has now the full lead unquestioned by me. And we will sort out the financial things where I need your help. This is why I went public with this topic now. Not because the project is coming to an end.
Last edited by gta04; 2014-05-15 at 20:42.
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2014-05-15
, 20:41
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Posts: 638 |
Thanked: 1,692 times |
Joined on Aug 2009
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#20
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Neo900 project is born with a new idea: community decides what is important for the new enginereed device and which should be the final result.
If it was a commercial product from a famous brand we should expect to see almost nothing until the delivery date. (often also photos of prototypes are partially hidden to hide the real aspect of the device.
For sure (if it was a commercial phone) we could not receive any progress information or any notice of inter-company fight to decide specs and detail.
Here and now we can know the progress situation, view the prototypes, ask for a specific feature or... know the difficulties that the "mens at work" engage everyday.
While, from one side, we should not be sad.
From the other, we should encourage Nikolaus, Joerg and Sebastian to go ahead realizing the device that represents our dream with secure certainty that, also if things are hard, this project is a new idea, a new concept that could change the perspectives that actually rule the market of technology and give us a pure piece of ..digital freedom.
Thanks
If it was a commercial product from a famous brand we should expect to see almost nothing until the delivery date. (often also photos of prototypes are partially hidden to hide the real aspect of the device.
For sure (if it was a commercial phone) we could not receive any progress information or any notice of inter-company fight to decide specs and detail.
Here and now we can know the progress situation, view the prototypes, ask for a specific feature or... know the difficulties that the "mens at work" engage everyday.
While, from one side, we should not be sad.
From the other, we should encourage Nikolaus, Joerg and Sebastian to go ahead realizing the device that represents our dream with secure certainty that, also if things are hard, this project is a new idea, a new concept that could change the perspectives that actually rule the market of technology and give us a pure piece of ..digital freedom.
Thanks
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Does that mean GDC won't be interested in doing some development work contracted by Neo900 UG if it raises the money on its own? I don't know yet, it depends on GDC.
It's not end of the world yet. It might be if we decide so, but we haven't yet. Please wait for announcement before jumping to conclusions!
The project is not canceled unless we clearly announce that, and as you probably noticed, we haven't yet.
PS. Sorry it turned out this way. We already reported few times "organizational stuff being finally sorted out", and I can assure you that it was really sincere. When we were saying that we truly believed in that, but unfortunately new problems haven't stopped arriving
Sebastian Krzyszkowiak - https://dosowisko.net/
Long term Openmoko supporter. Owner of two Neo Freerunners, a few N900s and some others too.
Future owner of the Neo900
Last edited by dos1; 2014-05-15 at 18:57.