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nhanquy is offline nhanquy
2009-01-11 , 05:42
Posts: 678 | Thanked: 197 times | Joined on Jul 2007 @ San Jose CA
#11
need to learn this .....
 

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allnameswereout is offline allnameswereout
2009-01-11 , 20:13
Posts: 3,397 | Thanked: 1,212 times | Joined on Jul 2008 @ Netherlands
#12
Originally Posted by GeraldKo View Post
I couldn't find any discussion of how the GPS on the N800 or N810 compares with dedicated GPS units (apart from lock-in time).

Has anybody had experience with both?

There are cheap bluetooth units for the N800 (about $20) now, but there are also refurbished dedicated GPS units going for $79 or so. Anybody know how good the NITs are versus cheap (and also pricier) dedicated GPS systems?

Has anybody used the Tablets for GPS in the wilderness (or as a "hiking" or "handheld" gps, like, for example, the Garmin eTrex) as well as on roads as a "dashboard" unit?
(The N800 doesn't have a GPS. There is a kit for the N800; this comes with all kind of useful accessoires including an external/dedicated GPS.)

N810 internal GPS is a PoS. Do not buy the N810 for its GPS chipset.

An external/dedicated GPS unit is very cheap, some are small as well and those with Sirf-III/MTK chipset provide a quick lock (1 minute) and accurate (by second; sometimes even better).

Some smartphones have a good GPS which (on S60) you can export using ExtGPS hence allowing the Nokia tablet to use this GPS while using Nokia tablet for the software.

That is not to say smartphones don't have good navigation software; theres tons of choices, really (Garmin, TomTom, Wayfinder, Nokia Maps, ...). I'm evaluating one called McGriver right now. S60 also has an application called Sports Tracker and Step Counter which are useful for GPS, statistics, and such. For Maemo, there is Ecoach. My S60 smartphone is smaller in every aspect (and has internal GPS) so a bit easier to travel with. OTOH, this smartphone doesn't have touch screen. I'm still evaluating my choice, but I tend to lean towards non-touch because touching while jogging isn't as easy as pushing some buttons. Nevermind using the stylus. In a bus or train this is also sometimes an issue.

So in the end, I'd say it also depends on the money you wish to spend, and the software you require.
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fattomm is offline fattomm
2009-01-11 , 22:44
Posts: 109 | Thanked: 37 times | Joined on Oct 2008 @ NYC, NY
#13
Originally Posted by allnameswereout View Post
N810 internal GPS is a PoS. Do not buy the N810 for its GPS chipset.
There are good GPS units with bluetooth connectivity available on e-bay. Get last year's most-popular model, and you'll probably find it cheap, and working fine.

I've done comparisons with my Belkin F8T051 (bought used, on e-bay) which gets fast locks, and is incredibly accurate (even in Manhattan and Brooklyn - skyscrapers and ELs are just hell on GPS). My N810 has me wandering across streets, up through buildings, while the Belkin has me +/- a few yards. (I use Maemo Mapper and tracking to review).

If you're hiking, it mayn't make much of a difference, but operationally, a separate bluetooth based unit is much easier to deal with. I can put it in my pocket when getting out (of the house, car, subway) while I get M.M. started up - and typically I've got a lock by the time MM is up and going. When driving, it is nice to put the GPS up on the dash, while keeping my N810 in a more readable position.

Overall, I guess, given the weak "locking strength" of the Maemo, a separate BT attached GPS unit is a *lot* easier to deal with in general....

I should mention also: I use this GPS unit with a couple of different devices. I originally bought it to use with my Palm pilot (and Mapopolis), but it's come along with me to the N810. I actually have a dedicated GPS unit, but frankly have used it so rarely. The GPS unit seems to do only ... GPS things. By packing one more pack-of-gum sized item with my usual gadgetry, I get "free" GPS. I'd prefer to not have to go online for directions (with M.M.) - but that's the only drawback. For interactive mapping and such, MM is great - and is fine for not too complicated trips. I do miss the dynamic re-route capabilities of real GPS units - but I need that about ... twice a year?
Last edited by fattomm; 2009-01-11 at 22:49.
 

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GeraldKo is offline GeraldKo
2009-01-11 , 23:31
Posts: 1,950 | Thanked: 1,174 times | Joined on Jan 2008 @ Seattle, USA
#14
Originally Posted by fattomm View Post
There are good GPS units with bluetooth connectivity available on e-bay. Get last year's most-popular model, and you'll probably find it cheap, and working fine.

I've done comparisons with my Belkin F8T051 (bought used, on e-bay) which gets fast locks, and is incredibly accurate (even in Manhattan and Brooklyn - skyscrapers and ELs are just hell on GPS). My N810 has me wandering across streets, up through buildings, while the Belkin has me +/- a few yards. (I use Maemo Mapper and tracking to review).

If you're hiking, it mayn't make much of a difference, but operationally, a separate bluetooth based unit is much easier to deal with. I can put it in my pocket when getting out (of the house, car, subway) while I get M.M. started up - and typically I've got a lock by the time MM is up and going. When driving, it is nice to put the GPS up on the dash, while keeping my N810 in a more readable position.

Overall, I guess, given the weak "locking strength" of the Maemo, a separate BT attached GPS unit is a *lot* easier to deal with in general....

I should mention also: I use this GPS unit with a couple of different devices. I originally bought it to use with my Palm pilot (and Mapopolis), but it's come along with me to the N810. I actually have a dedicated GPS unit, but frankly have used it so rarely. The GPS unit seems to do only ... GPS things. By packing one more pack-of-gum sized item with my usual gadgetry, I get "free" GPS. I'd prefer to not have to go online for directions (with M.M.) - but that's the only drawback. For interactive mapping and such, MM is great - and is fine for not too complicated trips. I do miss the dynamic re-route capabilities of real GPS units - but I need that about ... twice a year?
Fattomm, thanks for the feedback on your GPS usage, but you've confused me. You say at one point that your N810 has you walking through buildings and getting a lock very slowly, and then you seem to be saying you use the Tablet for almost everything in lieu of your dedicated GPS unit.

Also, am I right in understanding that the "pack-of-gum sized item" is a bluetooth GPS that you use in conjunction with your N810 even though the N810 has built-in GPS?

If I put it all together, I get that you're saying the Tablets (with minor limitations) are great for GPS so long as they are used with a BT GPS unit that is better than that which is built into the N810? (That is, the inaccuracy and slowness is from the internal GPS on the N810; but those problems are remedied by use of an external GPS add-on, without use of a complete, independent GPS system?)
 

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allnameswereout is offline allnameswereout
2009-01-12 , 01:32
Posts: 3,397 | Thanked: 1,212 times | Joined on Jul 2008 @ Netherlands
#15
Originally Posted by fattomm View Post
There are good GPS units with bluetooth connectivity available on e-bay. Get last year's most-popular model, and you'll probably find it cheap, and working fine.

I've done comparisons with my Belkin F8T051 (bought used, on e-bay) which gets fast locks, and is incredibly accurate (even in Manhattan and Brooklyn - skyscrapers and ELs are just hell on GPS). My N810 has me wandering across streets, up through buildings, while the Belkin has me +/- a few yards. (I use Maemo Mapper and tracking to review).

If you're hiking, it mayn't make much of a difference, but operationally, a separate bluetooth based unit is much easier to deal with. I can put it in my pocket when getting out (of the house, car, subway) while I get M.M. started up - and typically I've got a lock by the time MM is up and going. When driving, it is nice to put the GPS up on the dash, while keeping my N810 in a more readable position.

Overall, I guess, given the weak "locking strength" of the Maemo, a separate BT attached GPS unit is a *lot* easier to deal with in general....

I should mention also: I use this GPS unit with a couple of different devices. I originally bought it to use with my Palm pilot (and Mapopolis), but it's come along with me to the N810. I actually have a dedicated GPS unit, but frankly have used it so rarely. The GPS unit seems to do only ... GPS things. By packing one more pack-of-gum sized item with my usual gadgetry, I get "free" GPS. I'd prefer to not have to go online for directions (with M.M.) - but that's the only drawback. For interactive mapping and such, MM is great - and is fine for not too complicated trips. I do miss the dynamic re-route capabilities of real GPS units - but I need that about ... twice a year?
Good points. I got my GPS mouse from eBay for what was it 20 or 30 EUR I forgot... Sirf-III chipset, which is good and accurate (MTK is even better).

Maemo Mapper is good software and open source and free. It is also very powerful hence one needs to read the manual. Fragos wrote a good guide for Maemo Mapper.

Maemo Mapper grabs the maps real-time so you must pre-load them (knowing the travelling area) or use a packet radio data connection (mobile operator costs may apply; speed of downloading maps might be limited).

A cheap license for the proprietary Wayfinder software which comes with maps preloaded can be found via various ways. You can use the search for this, I posted many times about this.

The S60 map nav software also comes with preloaded maps.

Programs such as Ecoach also use online maps; so same (dis)advantage as with Maemo Mapper.
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jcharpak is offline jcharpak
2009-01-12 , 20:01
Posts: 196 | Thanked: 141 times | Joined on Aug 2007
#16
Originally Posted by GeraldKo View Post
Fattomm, thanks for the feedback on your GPS usage, but you've confused me. You say at one point that your N810 has you walking through buildings and getting a lock very slowly, and then you seem to be saying you use the Tablet for almost everything in lieu of your dedicated GPS unit.

Also, am I right in understanding that the "pack-of-gum sized item" is a bluetooth GPS that you use in conjunction with your N810 even though the N810 has built-in GPS?

If I put it all together, I get that you're saying the Tablets (with minor limitations) are great for GPS so long as they are used with a BT GPS unit that is better than that which is built into the N810? (That is, the inaccuracy and slowness is from the internal GPS on the N810; but those problems are remedied by use of an external GPS add-on, without use of a complete, independent GPS system?)
That is what fattomm was saying. The "pack-of-gum sized item" receives gps signals and relays the information via bluetooth to the N8x0. This pack of gum szed device has no screen, a few lights (to indicate its on, locked in, charging its battery, etc.) and an on/off switch. It is useless without a computer (such as the N800/N810 or even the 770). This device can be used instead of the mostly useless built in gps chip in the N810. It is required for use with the 770 and N800, neither of which has any gps chip whatsoever.


By "dedicated GPS unit" fattomm meant a "garmin/tom tom" unit that has a screen and comes preloaded with maps and likely can do rerouting without connection to the internet (something maemomapper cannot). Basically fattomm was saying

"Any Internet tablet+bluetooth gps gadget+maemomapper more or less equals a garmin"
and
"N810+maemomapper equals a very poor garmin"
 

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sgosnell is offline sgosnell
2009-01-13 , 04:18
Posts: 348 | Thanked: 61 times | Joined on Dec 2007
#17
I've used various systems over the years, including a Radio Shack Digitraveler, a bluetooth adapter connected to a Garmin Legend, and an F-Tech bluetooth GPS, these connected via bluetooth to a Palm running Mapopolis, and to an N800 runnning Maemo Mapper. I've also connected them to various laptops, including my Asus EeePC. What I mostly use now is a dedicated Magellan mapping GPS, sometimes augmented by Maemo Mapper on the N800 just for the satellite photos, not the routing. The Magellan stays in the car, always ready to do. It's far more convenient than the separate devices, the maps are current, and it doesn't crash. For ~$100, it's a good choice for me. At one time, standalone driving GPS systems were too expensive for me to consider, but they've become cheap and widely available, and no it makes no sense to me to use separate bluetooth GPS and computer, because it's all just too unwieldy. For hiking, I've tried all these same systems, and the Garmin Legend is by far the best. It's waterproof, and relatively shockproof. I don't want to risk relatively fragile and expensive devices like an NIT while tramping around in the woods and briars. All that said, no one system works perfectly for everyone. This is just what works for me.
Last edited by sgosnell; 2009-01-13 at 04:23.
 

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fattomm is offline fattomm
2009-01-13 , 05:51
Posts: 109 | Thanked: 37 times | Joined on Oct 2008 @ NYC, NY
#18
Originally Posted by GeraldKo View Post
Fattomm, thanks for the feedback on your GPS usage, but you've confused me. You say at one point that your N810 has you walking through buildings and getting a lock very slowly, and then you seem to be saying you use the Tablet for almost everything in lieu of your dedicated GPS unit.

Also, am I right in understanding that the "pack-of-gum sized item" is a bluetooth GPS that you use in conjunction with your N810 even though the N810 has built-in GPS?

If I put it all together, I get that you're saying the Tablets (with minor limitations) are great for GPS so long as they are used with a BT GPS unit that is better than that which is built into the N810? (That is, the inaccuracy and slowness is from the internal GPS on the N810; but those problems are remedied by use of an external GPS add-on, without use of a complete, independent GPS system?)
Precisely your last paragraph :-). Sorry I rambled so much - but I think that stems from my two primary uses: (1) in-car use (both to plot a trip, but also as a dynamic map when I invariably get lost in Brooklyn) and (2) as a device to plot my urban hikes around Manhattan (where I live, and tend to not get lost).

The internal GPS is really insufficient, and can be quite inaccurate as it gains/loses satellites. I'll lose satellite lock for many blocks at a time.

I had a handheld GPS unit (some Garmin "trekker" type, which my wife has sold on e-bay), but found it too bulky to easily slip into my pocket or tote around as I hike the "city canyons".

I like the flexibility of a separate bluetooth GPS device - since I (like a previous poster) have used Palm+Mapopolis+Belkin and N810+MaemoMapper+Belkin combinations, depending on my needs.

I've stayed away from dedicated GPS units in my car, since that sort of thing incites break-ins in NYC, and windshields are expensive and a PITA to replace. Portability and "fit in my coat pocket" are strong requirements for me - the N810 and Belkin GPS units fit that nicely. My driving tends to be around the NYC area, so large map databases aren't really a requirement for me.
Last edited by fattomm; 2009-01-13 at 06:08.
 

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overfloat is offline overfloat
2009-01-13 , 10:34
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#19
There appears to be a bit of denial going around this forum - all i have to say is that if you want turn-by-turn driving instructions, dont even think about the tablet as a fully featured GPS unit. Only wayfinder will give you directions (without connecting to the internet) - using well out-of-date POI, you also have to pay a subscription. You are much better off with a cheap tomtom or garmin system

That said, the tablet is probably better for hiking because you can use google maps with terrain etc.
 

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hordeman is offline hordeman
2009-01-15 , 01:09
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#20
Originally Posted by overfloat View Post
There appears to be a bit of denial going around this forum - all i have to say is that if you want turn-by-turn driving instructions, dont even think about the tablet as a fully featured GPS unit. Only wayfinder will give you directions (without connecting to the internet) - using well out-of-date POI, you also have to pay a subscription. You are much better off with a cheap tomtom or garmin system
Agreed. Here's my post on why I gave up on Maemo Mapper: http://www.internettablettalk.com/fo...078#post252078

Though, not clear on how it is good for hiking. Since you need a cell phone for the maps, is this still a viable option for hiking? I simply could not download any maps without MM telling me that it needed gobs of gigabytes to store them offline.
 

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