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2010-02-18
, 13:32
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Posts: 218 |
Thanked: 59 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
@ spain
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#12
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Originally Posted by TA-t3
AMEN!!
...However, for some of us who view the whole thing from the bottom-up, i.e. working directly with package creation etc. it can make a big difference. In particular, some of us went with the internet tablet (and later N900) _because_ it was a Debian/DEB-based solution...
That is very true.
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2010-02-18
, 13:51
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Posts: 946 |
Thanked: 1,650 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
@ Germany
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#13
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incompatible is always defined with respect to something.
Here it means w.r.t to a popular distribution which has a large maintained software pool.
Having a upstream distribution is relevant both for users and developers:
* users can install whatever package they like and be sure that it's up to date
(for example, apache with latest security fixes). they don't need to wait for
some developer to port it for them.
* developers of third-party apps can simply link against any non-core library
without porting it themselves and any commitment to maintain it.
If they are familiar with the mature upstream development tools and policies,
there is no need to learn something new. They could also build and test the apps
natively on their desktop.
Debian mobile will be LSB compatible and you will be able to install MeeGo RPM apps
in addition to large existing Debian pool.
If you want a system that is _only_ made for average joe, go MeeGo pure or the Iphone/Android way.
If want something for both experts and mainstream, Debian mobile would be an option.
Here it means w.r.t to a popular distribution which has a large maintained software pool.
Having a upstream distribution is relevant both for users and developers:
* users can install whatever package they like and be sure that it's up to date
(for example, apache with latest security fixes). they don't need to wait for
some developer to port it for them.
* developers of third-party apps can simply link against any non-core library
without porting it themselves and any commitment to maintain it.
If they are familiar with the mature upstream development tools and policies,
there is no need to learn something new. They could also build and test the apps
natively on their desktop.
Debian mobile will be LSB compatible and you will be able to install MeeGo RPM apps
in addition to large existing Debian pool.
If you want a system that is _only_ made for average joe, go MeeGo pure or the Iphone/Android way.
If want something for both experts and mainstream, Debian mobile would be an option.
Originally Posted by blachner
But, what I think, MeeGo wouldn't be less or more incompatible to Linux as Maemo is.
And question like pacakge system or base distribution is only important for:
...
Why shouldn't an an own distribution not based on Debian can meet the developers needs? Much more important is a good and stable API and a good GUI for this devices.
For most of the end users, it is important that MeeGo works really well on the devices. Most of the users are not interested if deb or rpm is used, if it just works well.
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2010-02-18
, 15:51
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Posts: 49 |
Thanked: 31 times |
Joined on Dec 2009
@ Moscow, Russia
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#14
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My suggesions:
- work with/for n900 for now;
- first BIG goal is to create a rootfs that will provide virtually same functionality as current Nokia's firmware without anything else installed, but within debian infrastructure: connected debian repos (+ project-specific repo with debs with nokia stuff and not-yet-in-debian software for n900), ability to install additional software from these repos;
- first SMALL goal is to create a wiki page that lists all debs in nokia's firmware and what is our desicion on action with that deb. And what to do with out-of-any-deb objects, if any.
- work with/for n900 for now;
- first BIG goal is to create a rootfs that will provide virtually same functionality as current Nokia's firmware without anything else installed, but within debian infrastructure: connected debian repos (+ project-specific repo with debs with nokia stuff and not-yet-in-debian software for n900), ability to install additional software from these repos;
- first SMALL goal is to create a wiki page that lists all debs in nokia's firmware and what is our desicion on action with that deb. And what to do with out-of-any-deb objects, if any.
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2010-02-18
, 15:54
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Posts: 49 |
Thanked: 31 times |
Joined on Dec 2009
@ Moscow, Russia
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#15
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Also, it looks for me that "Debian Mobile" is a bit unfair name for this project. There are other debian- or debian-based mobile related projects. Emdebian, pkg-fso, hackable:1 to name some.
Perhaps we should be a bit modest
, and get a more specific name. Maybe Debian Meego.
Perhaps we should be a bit modest
, and get a more specific name. Maybe Debian Meego.
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2010-02-18
, 15:59
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Posts: 49 |
Thanked: 31 times |
Joined on Dec 2009
@ Moscow, Russia
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#16
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Also, what about toolchain?
We have a choice at least between emdebian toolchains, maemo's scratchbox-based environment, and native compilation (perhaps on some fast arm system running debian).
We have a choice at least between emdebian toolchains, maemo's scratchbox-based environment, and native compilation (perhaps on some fast arm system running debian).
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2010-02-18
, 16:03
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Posts: 1,671 |
Thanked: 11,478 times |
Joined on Jun 2008
@ Warsaw, Poland
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#17
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For relicensing binaries for possible use in your project, or other methods, please see http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=44991 as well. Let me know what I can help with.
__________________
As you go on to other communities, remember to build them around politeness, respect, trust and humility. Be wary of poisonous people and deal with them before they end up killing your community.. Seen it happen to too many IRC channels, forums, open source projects.
As you go on to other communities, remember to build them around politeness, respect, trust and humility. Be wary of poisonous people and deal with them before they end up killing your community.. Seen it happen to too many IRC channels, forums, open source projects.
| The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Stskeeps For This Useful Post: | ||
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2010-02-18
, 16:07
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Posts: 3,841 |
Thanked: 1,079 times |
Joined on Nov 2006
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#18
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[Re: toolchain]
For me the scratchbox-based environment works well, but there's no reason there couldn't (still) be several alternative ways to choose among, depending on what works best for you.
For me the scratchbox-based environment works well, but there's no reason there couldn't (still) be several alternative ways to choose among, depending on what works best for you.
__________________
N800/OS2007|N900/Maemo5
-- Metalayer-crawler delenda est.
-- Current state: Fed up with everything MeeGo.
N800/OS2007|N900/Maemo5
-- Metalayer-crawler delenda est.
-- Current state: Fed up with everything MeeGo.
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2010-02-18
, 23:50
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Posts: 946 |
Thanked: 1,650 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
@ Germany
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#19
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stskeeps has done a nice job of documenting the (non-)free packages
http://stskeeps.subnetmask.net/maemo...penness/pr1.1/
there is also http://wiki.maemo.org/Free_Maemo
We could try to dpkg-repack all proprietary stuff, change their dependencies to the new
Debian versions and reinstall them in the Debian chroot.
We don't have the permission (stskeeps' efforts may help) to distribute them
but could have a script which automatically transforms a N900 into a Debian based device using the installed binaries.
http://stskeeps.subnetmask.net/maemo...penness/pr1.1/
there is also http://wiki.maemo.org/Free_Maemo
We could try to dpkg-repack all proprietary stuff, change their dependencies to the new
Debian versions and reinstall them in the Debian chroot.
We don't have the permission (stskeeps' efforts may help) to distribute them
but could have a script which automatically transforms a N900 into a Debian based device using the installed binaries.
Originally Posted by yoush
My suggesions:
- first SMALL goal is to create a wiki page that lists all debs in nokia's firmware and what is our desicion on action with that deb. And what to do with out-of-any-deb objects, if any.
Originally Posted by yoush
I'm fine with Debian MeeGo, too. Debian mobile was just Julian's first idea.
Also, it looks for me that "Debian Mobile" is a bit unfair name for this project.Perhaps we should be a bit modest
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2010-02-18
, 23:55
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Posts: 946 |
Thanked: 1,650 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
@ Germany
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#20
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Originally Posted by yoush
there is also scratchbox2 with an up-to-date lenny toolchain
Also, what about toolchain?
We have a choice at least between emdebian toolchains, maemo's scratchbox-based environment, and native compilation (perhaps on some fast arm system running debian).
http://maemo-sdk.garage.maemo.org/
Jebba's build server (AFAIK based on sbdmock)
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=43188
and MeeGo's OBS.
And I also don't want to try stop anyone to create something like Debian mobile.
But, what I think, MeeGo wouldn't be less or more incompatible to Linux as Maemo is. OK it don't use Debian tool but instead will use other tools, like rpm or obs, and will be compatible to this. And maybe it is more compatible to the LSB, the defined Linux standard, as Maemo. Only if you define Debian as the standard, it is incompatible. But only incompatible to Debian.
And question like pacakge system or base distribution is only important for:
- Developers of the MeeGo system
- Geeks
- Partially, Developers of applications for the MeeGo system. E.g. to package the applications.
Why shouldn't an an own distribution not based on Debian can meet the developers needs? Much more important is a good and stable API and a good GUI for this devices.
For most of the end users, it is important that MeeGo works really well on the devices. Most of the users are not interested if deb or rpm is used, if it just works well. Most of the users that are not geeks, are also not interested in a terminal on their device. They want special applications which works well with finger operation or at small screens on netbooks.