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richie |
2009-10-10
, 21:52
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Posts: 286 |
Thanked: 259 times |
Joined on Jan 2006
@ Cambridge, England
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#11
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Originally Posted by range
Yeah I know that, I was wondering what the 'open or closed mode' was, sounds ominous. Hoping someone has the wrong end of the stick.
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2009-10-10
, 21:59
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Posts: 337 |
Thanked: 160 times |
Joined on Aug 2009
@ München, DE
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#12
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Originally Posted by richie
If I understood it correctly (I am not at the summit): You can choose if you want to put the device into a mode where it is "DRM ready" which may disallow you to do some things, like becoming root for example.
Yeah I know that, I was wondering what the 'open or closed mode' was, sounds ominous. Hoping someone has the wrong end of the stick.
Or you can choose to put the device into open mode, which means that you cannot use applications relying on Digital Restriction Management at that time (or rather that those apps probably will not run then).
Which I think is an okayish trade-off.
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2009-10-10
, 22:01
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Posts: 3,397 |
Thanked: 1,212 times |
Joined on Jul 2008
@ Netherlands
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#13
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Originally Posted by richie
Thank you. It is a reference to Harmattan Platform Security talk by Elena Rashetova, quoted at 15:18 - 15:21. There are a few slides photographed but they're unfortunately not viewable (too bad quality) but since all talks are recorded to be broadcasted later we can look into it later.
It was mentioned here,
http://thenokiablog.com/2009/10/10/m...iveblog-day-2/
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15:43 [Comment From brainimpact]
as maemo 6 as a open and closed mode get ready for a battle with networks who will try get the switch removed in the devices they stock
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Originally Posted by range
Its something like allowing the user to enable/disable DRM. In a case it is enabled, the hardware will try to make all digital holes closed (since analog hole always exists).
If I understood it correctly (I am not at the summit): You can choose if you want to put the device into a mode where it is "DRM ready" which may disallow you to do some things, like becoming root for example.
Or its more system wise far more advanced than disabling root access, akin to signed binaries (like a Symbian or iPhone jail) and capability-based security.
Makes sense because sometimes, a N900 is given to employees and you don't want them to install the latest spyware on it, or remove the killswitch in case its stolen, or ...
IMO signed binaries are a good thing. Why would I trust running software from some shady person? Same for capabilities. Why would a browser require access to all files in ~/.* including your mail dirs?
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Goosfraba! All text written by allnameswereout is public domain unless stated otherwise. Thank you for sharing your output!
Goosfraba! All text written by allnameswereout is public domain unless stated otherwise. Thank you for sharing your output!
Last edited by allnameswereout; 2009-10-10 at 22:16.
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2009-10-10
, 22:25
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Posts: 1,746 |
Thanked: 2,100 times |
Joined on Sep 2009
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#14
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Originally Posted by range
In exchange for enjoying what the media companies have deemed you worthy of being allowed to sample (via ball and chain) you must give up freedom and control over your device.
If I understood it correctly (I am not at the summit): You can choose if you want to put the device into a mode where it is "DRM ready" which may disallow you to do some things, like becoming root for example.
Or you can choose to put the device into open mode, which means that you cannot use applications relying on Digital Restriction Management at that time (or rather that those apps probably will not run then).
Which I think is an okayish trade-off.
DRM is a tradeoff that always leaves the end-user less free. I hardly see how that is even "okayish" much less remotely acceptable.
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2009-10-10
, 22:32
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Posts: 3,105 |
Thanked: 11,088 times |
Joined on Jul 2007
@ Mountain View (CA, USA)
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#15
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Janne Heikkinen, head of product planning, mentioned DRM support for Maemo 6 in his keynote on Friday. Elena Reshetova, Security specialist had a lightning talk today about the two modes the security framework will enable in Maemo 6.
The examples of DRM based services provided were Ovi Store and Comes With Music.
The Maemo 6 security framework addresses other technical aspects apart from DRM. In short, Maemo users and developers willing to have full open access to their devices will continue to be able to do so just like now. As a consequence, DRM related services and other security control points will be removed from the system. If those users or developers want to return to the original DRM enabled configuration they will be able to do so. Their choice.
Last edited by qgil; 2009-10-10 at 22:34.
The examples of DRM based services provided were Ovi Store and Comes With Music.
The Maemo 6 security framework addresses other technical aspects apart from DRM. In short, Maemo users and developers willing to have full open access to their devices will continue to be able to do so just like now. As a consequence, DRM related services and other security control points will be removed from the system. If those users or developers want to return to the original DRM enabled configuration they will be able to do so. Their choice.
Last edited by qgil; 2009-10-10 at 22:34.
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2009-10-10
, 22:42
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Posts: 337 |
Thanked: 160 times |
Joined on Aug 2009
@ München, DE
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#16
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Originally Posted by wmarone
Then turn it off if you do not want it. That is what I meant with okayish trade-off - nobody puts a gun to your head and tells you "Sorry, not your device".
In exchange for enjoying what the media companies have deemed you worthy of being allowed to sample (via ball and chain) you must give up freedom and control over your device.
DRM is a tradeoff that always leaves the end-user less free. I hardly see how that is even "okayish" much less remotely acceptable.
Although I really don't see why Nokia thinks it must push restricted music - I thought the music industry had learned at least *that* lesson.
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2009-10-10
, 22:42
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Posts: 3,397 |
Thanked: 1,212 times |
Joined on Jul 2008
@ Netherlands
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#17
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Originally Posted by wmarone
Its either being able to watch DRM video having the freedom to watch online over Internet e.g. Olympics or football championships. IOC and UEFA demand the DRM.
In exchange for enjoying what the media companies have deemed you worthy of being allowed to sample (via ball and chain) you must give up freedom and control over your device.
DRM is a tradeoff that always leaves the end-user less free. I hardly see how that is even "okayish" much less remotely acceptable.
Or, having to rebroadcast it myself while I don't have upload capacity on my home connection).
Or, DVB-T/DVB-H, but don't think works on N900.
Or, not being able to watch it mobile.
Where is your choice now?
I'll take the freedom of choice to enable or disable DRM then. And, its great that it can be reenabled and redisabled in future point.
Plus, you'd not want some employees being able to fiddle with the device, given how incredibly dumb they are with technology. Lets be able to protect your business interests because 3G 24/7 connectivity opens a can of worms.
@qgil are there plans to port over Fluendo codecs to Maemo, or Moonlight to Maemo?
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Goosfraba! All text written by allnameswereout is public domain unless stated otherwise. Thank you for sharing your output!
Goosfraba! All text written by allnameswereout is public domain unless stated otherwise. Thank you for sharing your output!
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2009-10-10
, 22:52
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Posts: 1,746 |
Thanked: 2,100 times |
Joined on Sep 2009
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#18
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Originally Posted by range
Are you sure about that? After all, if you can replace the kernel then you can do whatever you want with the data.
Then turn it off if you do not want it. That is what I meant with okayish trade-off - nobody puts a gun to your head and tells you "Sorry, not your device".
Although I really don't see why Nokia thinks it must push restricted music - I thought the music industry had learned at least *that* lesson.
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2009-10-10
, 23:07
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Posts: 3,397 |
Thanked: 1,212 times |
Joined on Jul 2008
@ Netherlands
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#19
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Originally Posted by wmarone
Indeed, so probably they'll use signed .deb and signed binaries and if you enable DRM you have to download and install those first.
Are you sure about that? After all, if you can replace the kernel then you can do whatever you want with the data.
Which indeed will replace your kernel again, and won't run the backdoors you installed because they're not signed binaries.
Together with capability-based security (such as limiting the browser local access even though able to run JS, Java, Flash, etc) you'll have a good jail.
Ofcourse, part of the DRM is hardware-based. Even though there may be a local exploit in some software, root access has to be gained while execution is difficult because of signed binaries and capability-based security plus, question is what root access exactly implies in such context.
I mean... you're aware the Symbian jails are pretty hard to break, right?
__________________
Goosfraba! All text written by allnameswereout is public domain unless stated otherwise. Thank you for sharing your output!
Goosfraba! All text written by allnameswereout is public domain unless stated otherwise. Thank you for sharing your output!
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2009-10-10
, 23:07
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Posts: 3,105 |
Thanked: 11,088 times |
Joined on Jul 2007
@ Mountain View (CA, USA)
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#20
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I put a link to Comes With Music for those not familiar with the concept. You might like the idea or not, but if you like it I personally can't think of a way to implement it without some kind of DRM.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comes_W...mes_With_Music
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comes_W...mes_With_Music
