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2010-01-06
, 12:29
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Posts: 1,540 |
Thanked: 1,045 times |
Joined on Feb 2007
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#12
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Originally Posted by RevdKathy
Perhaps Maemo might be a special case though, especially if these are users that are active in the Maemo community?
Not sure whether Nokia would want to sponsor gatherings of users - it's more about people with a similar hobby getting together than actual development. Though I think such events would make a positive impact on the forums.
I know they used to have free invitation-only gatherings for Symbian S60 users...
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2010-01-06
, 15:58
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Posts: 11,700 |
Thanked: 10,045 times |
Joined on Jun 2006
@ North Texas, USA
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#13
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Originally Posted by RevdKathy
I suuure could use more feedback/input on the outreach programs I'm developing. Note: it won't just be about developers, although they are the pilot target. And anyone on LInkedIn needs to join maemo daemons group!
One of the ways Maemo.org can reduce it is by encouraging the Meet-ups. People are much less rude once they've met you.
(Small warning - I'm hatching a plan for a UK users meet - that's users, not devs, just for a day out togther) ((Edit - I don't mean devs won't be welcome just that the plan is to focus on what n900 can do, not how to develop for it. Possibly some sort of treasure hunt event in the spring))
__________________
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
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2010-01-06
, 16:08
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Posts: 129 |
Thanked: 60 times |
Joined on Jul 2009
@ Castello d'Argile (BO)
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#14
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Originally Posted by RevdKathy
Well, today I noticed the same behaviour on RAI (the italian state tv): they were waxing lyrical on Google's phone and mentioned neither Maemo nor the N900 nor Nokia.
I am still cross with BBC news for making a huge fuss over the new google phone when even their geek division has never mentioned Maemo.
Now, if I were the Beeb I wouldn't be flattered by such a comparison
Last edited by aboaboit; 2010-01-06 at 16:11.
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2010-01-06
, 16:23
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Posts: 284 |
Thanked: 498 times |
Joined on Jun 2009
@ Poland
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#15
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The problem is that the less life a person has, the more strongly he/she feels about things that essentially are the only good things in their lives or give them any meaning at all. In this case they feel strongly about Maemo, in another forum it may be about a fictional character in a science fiction novel. Most are unaware how unreasonable their behaviour is.
People saying that the iPhone is useless, that Android is garbage, that the Nexus One sucks terribly, only because it doesn't have a physical keyboard. Think about it, are those opinions reasonable? No, no they're not, but they are being repeated every single day around here.
When you couple this with infantile, immature behaviour, we have a recipe for disaster.
I think many people here, including the long-timers, have been caught unprepared by the recent influx of newcomers. The fault lies somewhere in-between. Newcomers feel strongly about platforms they're coming from and the people who were here forever have never been challenged in this way, they also feel strongly about their home platform. This results in pointless 200+ post threads, where everyone just keeps their ground and doesn't know how to discuss things in an adult manner, resorting to name calling, at the very least.
For those who haven't noticed, this is a very thinly veiled jab at both sides of this "conflict".
But it's an inherent problem of every community as it grows larger, it's nothing specific to Maemo.org. The larger the community becomes, the more statistical probability of it containing *****s, anti-social people and trolls. It's unavoidable. People who have been here forever have grown accustomed to the nice, cozy, small community, they hate this change, they don't want the community to fall apart. So they react emotionally and provoke anti-social discussions, sometimes under the guise of "fun" ("no, don't ban him, he's funny"), which is destructive.
The solution to this problem is either:
1) don't react (people crave attention), don't ban (people crave attention and martyr status), ignore threads with people you don't like and go about your day. The problem won't go away, as the community will grow and more people will come, some will go, but we'll see arguments (we do now actually) between newcomers, not only new vs. old. But never give anyone any undeserved attention.
2) Heavily moderate the forum and ban people. This requires resources we probably don't have and is mostly unworkable in the long run.
People saying that the iPhone is useless, that Android is garbage, that the Nexus One sucks terribly, only because it doesn't have a physical keyboard. Think about it, are those opinions reasonable? No, no they're not, but they are being repeated every single day around here.
When you couple this with infantile, immature behaviour, we have a recipe for disaster.
I think many people here, including the long-timers, have been caught unprepared by the recent influx of newcomers. The fault lies somewhere in-between. Newcomers feel strongly about platforms they're coming from and the people who were here forever have never been challenged in this way, they also feel strongly about their home platform. This results in pointless 200+ post threads, where everyone just keeps their ground and doesn't know how to discuss things in an adult manner, resorting to name calling, at the very least.
For those who haven't noticed, this is a very thinly veiled jab at both sides of this "conflict".
But it's an inherent problem of every community as it grows larger, it's nothing specific to Maemo.org. The larger the community becomes, the more statistical probability of it containing *****s, anti-social people and trolls. It's unavoidable. People who have been here forever have grown accustomed to the nice, cozy, small community, they hate this change, they don't want the community to fall apart. So they react emotionally and provoke anti-social discussions, sometimes under the guise of "fun" ("no, don't ban him, he's funny"), which is destructive.
The solution to this problem is either:
1) don't react (people crave attention), don't ban (people crave attention and martyr status), ignore threads with people you don't like and go about your day. The problem won't go away, as the community will grow and more people will come, some will go, but we'll see arguments (we do now actually) between newcomers, not only new vs. old. But never give anyone any undeserved attention.
2) Heavily moderate the forum and ban people. This requires resources we probably don't have and is mostly unworkable in the long run.
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2010-01-06
, 16:27
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Posts: 316 |
Thanked: 150 times |
Joined on May 2006
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#16
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Originally Posted by RevdKathy
Agreed - I'm sure I'm thinking of the same particular subject as you
The problem is that many people never got beyond "This is right for me so you must be wrong" to find "This is right for me - what's right for you?"
I wonder how much of that is because some people have come to believe that that sort of language and content is the norm for internet communication. I have certainly met people who were perfectly pleasant in real life who mutated into monosyllabic flamers in front of their screens.
<snip>
One of the ways Maemo.org can reduce it is by encouraging the Meet-ups. People are much less rude once they've met you.
Don't get me wrong, a meet-up is good and will diffuse some personality clashes but unfortunately it is no guaranteed silver bullet.
(Small warning - I'm hatching a plan for a UK users meet - that's users, not devs, just for a day out togther)
but I'll be there in spirit! I'm also annoyed at the Beeb's Google worship and ignoring the one device that is trying something different. There again, I'm happy that they're doing something different from their usual Apple or MS adverts ..err.. tech stories.
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2010-01-06
, 16:41
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Posts: 1,540 |
Thanked: 1,045 times |
Joined on Feb 2007
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#17
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Originally Posted by jaark
Well it seems like they cover a particular group of (mostly American) companies as if they're gods, regardless of what the true picture might be.
I'm also annoyed at the Beeb's Google worship and ignoring the one device that is trying something different. There again, I'm happy that they're doing something different from their usual Apple or MS adverts ..err.. tech stories.
I remember when there was a problem with the Blackberry network, they were covering that like it was some kind of major international crisis.
All I can think of is that they are writing about devices they use a lot, and assuming that everyone else uses them a lot.
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2010-01-06
, 16:48
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Posts: 11,700 |
Thanked: 10,045 times |
Joined on Jun 2006
@ North Texas, USA
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#18
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Originally Posted by Tomaszd
I disagree those are the only options.
The solution to this problem is either:
1) don't react (people crave attention), don't ban (people crave attention and martyr status), ignore threads with people you don't like and go about your day. The problem won't go away, as the community will grow and more people will come, some will go, but we'll see arguments (we do now actually) between newcomers, not only new vs. old. But never give anyone any undeserved attention.
2) Heavily moderate the forum and ban people. This requires resources we probably don't have and is mostly unworkable in the long run.
For one, I still have yet to see that ignoring can actually work. It never did in forums I used to frequent. People who crave attention will up the ante until they get it one way or another. To sociopaths, negative attention is better than positive attention because it's free and easy to obtain in large quantities.
What I have seen work is not heavy moderation but highly selective moderation. Target the root cause troublemakers, who are usually low in number but attract large followers when they are allowed to persist. Ban them, and when they create another account, ban them again. Eventually they will find a forum where there is no moderation.
They're like locusts, even in small numbers. They invade, disrupt, and leave chaos in their wake. Soft moderation is useless when it comes to these types.
__________________
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
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2010-01-06
, 16:52
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Posts: 501 |
Thanked: 292 times |
Joined on Nov 2009
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#19
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Originally Posted by Texrat
This is the so-call "Aliens" take off and nuke the site from space approach, and it is highly effective.
What I have seen work is not heavy moderation but highly selective moderation. Target the root cause troublemakers, who are usually low in number but attract large followers when they are allowed to persist.
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2010-01-06
, 16:53
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Posts: 1,540 |
Thanked: 1,045 times |
Joined on Feb 2007
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#20
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The thing that bothers me is when someone joins a forum and expresses nothing but contempt for the topic of that forum. Why do they join?
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| Tags |
| cars and radios, community, constructive criticism, critcism, criticizing criticism, critiquing critiques, maemo.org, maturity, on fanning trolls, on trolling fans, talk, talk.maemo.org |
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Not sure whether Nokia would want to sponsor gatherings of users - it's more about people with a similar hobby getting together than actual development. Though I think such events would make a positive impact on the forums.
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