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lma	2010-04-07 , 22:16
Posts: 2,802 \| Thanked: 4,491 times \| Joined on Nov 2007	#11

FYI, there's a new package with a "CLI" icon in extras-testing now, so it'd be great if the squad tested that this week instead of thumbing down the old one :-)

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	Jaffa	2010-04-10 , 09:49
	Posts: 2,535 \| Thanked: 6,681 times \| Joined on Mar 2008 @ UK	#12

CLI icons are not necessary for daemons which are autostarted (e.g. OpenSSH server). However they are necessary for applications (or servers) which can only be started by launching X Terminal.

So, if openntpd autostarts, is a daemon, and requires no user intervention to get its benefit then (AIUI):

It does not need a CLI icon (or CLI icon badge)
The description needs to be clear that the user doesn't have to do anything as it runs in the background.

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lma	2010-04-10 , 19:49
Posts: 2,802 \| Thanked: 4,491 times \| Joined on Nov 2007	#13

Originally Posted by Jaffa

CLI icons are not necessary for daemons which are autostarted (e.g. OpenSSH server).

Furrfu, make up your mind people! I'm way past caring what the actual policy is, as long as we have one that's clear and unambiguous but apparently that's too hard (cf http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras-testing...pplication_.3F).

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	Jaffa	2010-04-10 , 19:56
	Posts: 2,535 \| Thanked: 6,681 times \| Joined on Mar 2008 @ UK	#14

Originally Posted by lma

Furrfu, make up your mind people! I'm way past caring what the actual policy is, as long as we have one that's clear and unambiguous but apparently that's too hard (cf http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras-testing...pplication_.3F).

And I've argued against it (and been ignored by whoever wrote that), not seen any consensus and it's just plain wrong by reductio ad absurdum. What is the difference between:

OpenSSH server (starts at boot, is secure by asking for a root password on installation, has no other GUI)
Additional multimedia decoders
openntpd

Or even things like Telepathy plugins, Flashlight or the Facebook uploading widget which have no obvious GUI (or icon after installation) and require you to go to some specific part of the platform to discover them. Descriptions are important for all of these, a CLI icon (when they're not accessed through the CLI) is just plain silly.

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	Jaffa	2010-04-10 , 19:57
	Posts: 2,535 \| Thanked: 6,681 times \| Joined on Mar 2008 @ UK	#15

If the Testing Squad agrees (and, as I say, there was no consensus beyond "CLI apps should have an icon"), I will modify the wiki.

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nidO	2010-04-10 , 22:45
Posts: 278 \| Thanked: 303 times \| Joined on Feb 2010 @ Norwich, UK	#16

I'd agree with that. I see no reason for daemon applications to require a CLI icon, though IMO they should state that theyre daemons which don't require any user interaction once installed.

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	VDVsx	2010-04-11 , 11:34
	Posts: 1,070 \| Thanked: 1,604 times \| Joined on Sep 2008 @ Helsinki	#17

Originally Posted by Jaffa

If the Testing Squad agrees (and, as I say, there was no consensus beyond "CLI apps should have an icon"), I will modify the wiki.

IIRC this discussion was very brief and there was no consensus at that time, one of the arguments were that some daemons can be activated from the command line, or can receive commands, so in order to simplify and don't create more rules we reach this decision.
Feel free to reopen the discussion or write more clear rules that clearly separate daemon/enablers from pure CLI apps.

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torpedo48	2010-04-11 , 15:35
Posts: 489 \| Thanked: 404 times \| Joined on Dec 2009	#18

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	Jaffa	2010-04-11 , 18:15
	Posts: 2,535 \| Thanked: 6,681 times \| Joined on Mar 2008 @ UK	#19

Originally Posted by VDVsx

IIRC this discussion was very brief and there was no consensus at that time, one of the arguments were that some daemons can be activated from the command line, or can receive commands, so in order to simplify and don't create more rules we reach this decision.
Feel free to reopen the discussion or write more clear rules that clearly separate daemon/enablers from pure CLI apps.

Consider the discussion reopened ;-)

Clear rules:

An application MUST use the standard CLI icon, or the standard CLI badge over an alternative icon, if the user must use X Terminal to start the main purpose of the application.
Packages which auto-start in a secure manner, or enable alternative functionality in other applications, SHOULD NOT use the CLI icon, as interaction with them through the CLI is not required.
Any daemon which auto-starts MUST NOT provide a trivial attack vector, and so SHOULD (for example) prompt for a password during installation.

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	GeneralAntilles	2010-04-11 , 19:09
	Posts: 5,478 \| Thanked: 5,222 times \| Joined on Jan 2006 @ St. Petersburg, FL	#20

Originally Posted by Jaffa

Clear rules:

An application MUST use the standard CLI icon, or the standard CLI badge over an alternative icon, if the user must use X Terminal to start the main purpose of the application.

Packages which auto-start in a secure manner, or enable alternative functionality in other applications, SHOULD NOT use the CLI icon, as interaction with them through the CLI is not required.

Any daemon which auto-starts MUST NOT provide a trivial attack vector, and so SHOULD (for example) prompt for a password during installation.

Just in case the Thanks! doesn't clue people in, I'm very much agreed with these changes.

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