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2012-05-24
, 11:54
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Thanked: 4,272 times |
Joined on Feb 2011
@ Germany
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#12
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Originally Posted by godofwar424
Just an idea: newcomers need to pass a "test" before they can post for the first time.
Its true, there's an Off-Top section of this forum for a reason, I honestly think TMO needs to FORCE first timers to read the rules and ENFORCE them!
The test is interactive: you are told to read a wiki page (e.g. reflashing), and then you have to answer a question, e.g. type a command you should have found on the wiki page. Then another question, e.g. search for something specific and then answer a multiple-choice question, etc.
The whole thing is obviously easy to trick, but would at least present some initial challenge which (hopefully most) newcomers would actually enjoy.
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2012-05-24
, 12:00
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Posts: 1,583 |
Thanked: 1,203 times |
Joined on Dec 2011
@ Everywhere
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#13
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Originally Posted by anthonie
quick reply replaced with search box,
So, let me ask it this way: Who do we actually help, by allowing 100 threads with the same questions to be started over and over?
Is it not one of the main points of a forum to collect information and knowledge in a presentable manner so that we may reap the benefits of the shortest route to it?
__________________
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2012-05-24
, 12:26
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Posts: 74 |
Thanked: 20 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
@ USA
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#14
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Its personal opinion.
Last edited by m_dk29; 2012-05-25 at 02:40.
Last edited by m_dk29; 2012-05-25 at 02:40.
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2012-05-24
, 12:34
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Posts: 1,312 |
Thanked: 736 times |
Joined on Sep 2009
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#15
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so lets see here, my one post to one of the new thread on what Nokia should do, while there were close to five threads discussing the same thing was what ticked you off?
granted the topics like that deserve to be in forum for some casual social discussion but that doesn't mean that whole forum needs to be cluttered with the same topic over and over.
granted the topics like that deserve to be in forum for some casual social discussion but that doesn't mean that whole forum needs to be cluttered with the same topic over and over.
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2012-05-24
, 12:38
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Posts: 915 |
Thanked: 3,209 times |
Joined on Jan 2011
@ Germany
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#16
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Originally Posted by reinob
That doesn't work and frankly the moment such a technique will be implemented I'll be gone (even if it wouldn't affect me due to my post counter or whatever).
Just an idea: newcomers need to pass a "test" before they can post for the first time.
The test is interactive: you are told to read a wiki page (e.g. reflashing), and then you have to answer a question, e.g. type a command you should have found on the wiki page. Then another question, e.g. search for something specific and then answer a multiple-choice question, etc.
It handicaps ordinary users (maybe just due to their poor English skills - imagine the wiki was in Klingon and you'd have to answer questions to post here) but doesn't actually prevent someone from making stupid posts.
The same idea is behind all DRM techniques: They are designed to prevent "bad boys" from doing something nasty but in the end it's only/mostly the regular users that suffer from the restrictions.
The problem isn't newbies, the problem is ignorants (and trolls). I have no problem with taking people by the hand who don't know things, I have a problem with people who don't (want to) learn and expect me to spoon-feed them. That's two totally different things.
The problem we're facing here is not a technical but a social one and it can not be solved by technical means but only by social means. To achieve that we need a broad consensus in the community to ignore trolls, a forum team of moderators that is generous in interpreting but strict in enforcing transparent community(-made) rules and a close relationship between ordinary community members and team members (there must not be a us-vs.-them perception).
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2012-05-24
, 12:44
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Posts: 1,680 |
Thanked: 3,685 times |
Joined on Jan 2011
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#17
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Lack of tolerance on TMO? WTFO, GTFO U noob.
But seriously, TMO is, at the core, by 'normal' standards a very technical forum. Most of the old schoolers here (whom I one day hope to join) have spent many hours educating themselves in the workings of linux/IT/computers. We understand what makes our devices tick, why things are the way they are. We understand with great functionality comes great fúck-up-ability.
When you have some douchecopter start posting about how much greater an inferior piece of hardware/IT is better because it is able to perform some banal triviality faster or easier it outrages us.
When some bellbag who has little understanding of the most basic tenets of troubleshooting refuses to listen then brands our holy sacrament, the n900 as shít, we become enraged.
I understand the need for round paper, non-toxic crayons, safety scissors and bettar fonez, but don't try and tell me they are more useful and more valuable because they just work and all your spacker mates have one.
I am fairly certain TMO zeitgeist ebbs and flows like a sine wave.
At 0 degrees things are balanced, disappointment and optimism are roughly equal. A new device gets released.
As we approach 90 degrees we have a full on influx of rétards and other assorted riff-raff who just got tricked into receiving a maemo/meego/nemo/mer/tizen/whatever. They are confused and angry. 'Y U NO POST LOLTWEETS TO MY FACEWALL???' they scream at their devices. FOr everyaction there is and opposite reaction. All this trash is met with 'GTFO u noob' and 'FFS, RTFM'.
As we hit 90 degrees, we start getting all the 'I have had it with this useless <device> it will not <latest mong appz>. And people slowly leave.
As we approach 180 degrees the leaving notes become less frequent and more rational. (to be fair the current 'n9 sux, imma gone' thread does raise some valid points).
As we pass 180 degrees, the remaining users all club together to overcome the issues surrounding the current new device. Interest in the previous device comes less and less.
At 270 degrees a new device is announced. We then start the influx of fools anticipating the new device, this counteracts all the goodwill.
360 degrees, we are back to the start.
Right now, we are at 90 degrees.
I am pretty sure the N800 guys (rest in piece) noticed the same thing when the n900 came along. I for one missed it because I am a noob and only joined after Nokia announced complete abandonment of the n900. (I was like 'w00t, finally I can afford the piece of hardware I have been waiting over a decade for!' (sharp PC1360->atari portfolio->Jornada 680 (with 'nix, got me through uni XD)->e72(briefly)->n900))).
Geneven's signature sums it up beautifully, 'all I need is 40 acres, a mule and xterm.' You get annoyed when city folks want to come around and build a ****ing nail bar.
Last edited by vi_; 2012-05-24 at 13:34.
But seriously, TMO is, at the core, by 'normal' standards a very technical forum. Most of the old schoolers here (whom I one day hope to join) have spent many hours educating themselves in the workings of linux/IT/computers. We understand what makes our devices tick, why things are the way they are. We understand with great functionality comes great fúck-up-ability.
When you have some douchecopter start posting about how much greater an inferior piece of hardware/IT is better because it is able to perform some banal triviality faster or easier it outrages us.
When some bellbag who has little understanding of the most basic tenets of troubleshooting refuses to listen then brands our holy sacrament, the n900 as shít, we become enraged.
I understand the need for round paper, non-toxic crayons, safety scissors and bettar fonez, but don't try and tell me they are more useful and more valuable because they just work and all your spacker mates have one.
I am fairly certain TMO zeitgeist ebbs and flows like a sine wave.
At 0 degrees things are balanced, disappointment and optimism are roughly equal. A new device gets released.
As we approach 90 degrees we have a full on influx of rétards and other assorted riff-raff who just got tricked into receiving a maemo/meego/nemo/mer/tizen/whatever. They are confused and angry. 'Y U NO POST LOLTWEETS TO MY FACEWALL???' they scream at their devices. FOr everyaction there is and opposite reaction. All this trash is met with 'GTFO u noob' and 'FFS, RTFM'.
As we hit 90 degrees, we start getting all the 'I have had it with this useless <device> it will not <latest mong appz>. And people slowly leave.
As we approach 180 degrees the leaving notes become less frequent and more rational. (to be fair the current 'n9 sux, imma gone' thread does raise some valid points).
As we pass 180 degrees, the remaining users all club together to overcome the issues surrounding the current new device. Interest in the previous device comes less and less.
At 270 degrees a new device is announced. We then start the influx of fools anticipating the new device, this counteracts all the goodwill.
360 degrees, we are back to the start.
Right now, we are at 90 degrees.
I am pretty sure the N800 guys (rest in piece) noticed the same thing when the n900 came along. I for one missed it because I am a noob and only joined after Nokia announced complete abandonment of the n900. (I was like 'w00t, finally I can afford the piece of hardware I have been waiting over a decade for!' (sharp PC1360->atari portfolio->Jornada 680 (with 'nix, got me through uni XD)->e72(briefly)->n900))).
Geneven's signature sums it up beautifully, 'all I need is 40 acres, a mule and xterm.' You get annoyed when city folks want to come around and build a ****ing nail bar.
__________________
N900: One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.
Last edited by vi_; 2012-05-24 at 13:34.
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2012-05-24
, 13:00
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@ not your mom's FOSS basement
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#18
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Thanks for introducing me to "spacker mates" and "mong appz"
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2012-05-24
, 13:06
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Posts: 120 |
Thanked: 207 times |
Joined on Dec 2011
@ Switzerland
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#19
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Good topic for a thread. I'm rather new to TMO, joined it because of the N9 but can also see that TMO is getting a new type of users. The reason is, that the N9 is next to being a "geek phone" also a end-user phone, same as an iPhone or Android device. We saw it with the Wazapp announcement, tons of new registrations by users who...let's say talk differently than the typical TMO user. I'm getting many "please-help-me-messages" from users which are already confused when they can't use Nokia Store to install an app.
A bit of fanboyism can be tolerated and especially knowing the background of the N9 I guess many users are very protective about this phone. Still fanboyism at TMO is MINIMAL! I used to be active in the iOS community and over there it's crazy! You can't even mention another phone, at TMO we mainly have very good discussions.
I'm convinced that the N9 is a better phone than the iPhone, especially in my view. But while at TMO also a N9 can be criticized, don't try to do the same in an iOS forum, I couldn't even imagine to mention a Nokia N9! (same btw in real-life)
Two things which could be better IMO:
1. Respect between N900 and N9 users. Guys we're in the same boat! Especially N900 users feel some home threaded by N9 users, saw that a couple times in this forum. Maemo is maemo and TMO is a discussion platform for that.
2. Mods taking more care of fanboys, bashing maemo products and advertise own preferences. I'm mainly talking about one user here. It can not be that we have users here who's only mission is to criticize or even bash maemo products. If a non-maemo user is here to interact with good and fair discussions...ok! But nothing else. It destroys many wonderful discussions. If you're ManUnited fan, you simply don't join the ManCity forum to cry around in there.
A bit of fanboyism can be tolerated and especially knowing the background of the N9 I guess many users are very protective about this phone. Still fanboyism at TMO is MINIMAL! I used to be active in the iOS community and over there it's crazy! You can't even mention another phone, at TMO we mainly have very good discussions.
I'm convinced that the N9 is a better phone than the iPhone, especially in my view. But while at TMO also a N9 can be criticized, don't try to do the same in an iOS forum, I couldn't even imagine to mention a Nokia N9! (same btw in real-life)
Two things which could be better IMO:
1. Respect between N900 and N9 users. Guys we're in the same boat! Especially N900 users feel some home threaded by N9 users, saw that a couple times in this forum. Maemo is maemo and TMO is a discussion platform for that.
2. Mods taking more care of fanboys, bashing maemo products and advertise own preferences. I'm mainly talking about one user here. It can not be that we have users here who's only mission is to criticize or even bash maemo products. If a non-maemo user is here to interact with good and fair discussions...ok! But nothing else. It destroys many wonderful discussions. If you're ManUnited fan, you simply don't join the ManCity forum to cry around in there.
__________________
AllBoutN9 - Everything about Nokia N9 & Jolla's Sailfish OS www.allboutn9.info
AllBoutN9 - Everything about Nokia N9 & Jolla's Sailfish OS www.allboutn9.info
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2012-05-24
, 13:52
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Banned |
Posts: 3,412 |
Thanked: 1,043 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
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#20
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Originally Posted by Dousan
Well said Dousan, if i had said this it would have been all out war on here as has happened many times before, the fact is your right 100% as many members do not accept in any way or form critisism on here even knowing they are totally ignorant, wrong and very abusive.
Hi all TMO members.
You can call this a rant or an observation or just something i need to get of my chest.
It has become really tiresome to read post after post in various threads when ever another OS get's mentioned in a positive way, the poster gets flamed/bashed/demeaned for his/hers opinion.
I think the fanboyism about the N900/N9 -> Maemo/MeeGo is getting out of hand and some people treets it as their new found religion and any one not praising it gets bashed/flamed/called names.
Maemo/Meego got great things going, but not for all poeple and it should be legit to state your views on things here without getting flamed. I meen not all people are into xterm and heavy modding or used to be and found themself burned out and need more out of the box experience and every time this appears someone just has to post that Maemo/Meego is the most open platforms and you can do whatever you whant and states somewhat things that these platforms can do that others don't. But if you come to the conclusion that the N900/N9 is not for you and you mis out on everyday social life with your friends/work cause the N9 deos not provide the apps you need it is totally legit to express that and no it's not ok to demean people for having another view on things.
Why this religious and intolerant approach to people with diffrent views/needs? Why do people take it so personal that other people can't get by wiyh Maemo/Meego on an everyday use. Why can't people accept that other people got different needs and preferences. Why are people being called simple or stupid cause they like out of the box experience and for not needing coding/hacking/modding/xterm'ing to get their devices to do what they want or should be doing in the first place out of the box?
As a has been user of Android and IOS i must say that theres alot more than the ever returning answer about it's only fart and shite apps on those to appstores. That's just bs. There's alot of good apps and yes there's alot of crap, but if you like casual or heavy mobile gaming those are the platforms to use to give an example.
I just don't understand why peolpe use so much time in telling why other platform sucks instead of enjoying there own and asking why others do like a speciffic platform over Maemo/Meego. Broaden your horizonts, your knowledge and embrace defferences you might learn something. I don't get why people see other platforms as enemys.
I'm fan of different things, but not to the extend that I hate everything else. Hate is a negative energy and fan/liking things is a positive energy. Stay with the liking and as long as you're happy with your choise who gives what others likes. Really.
I think some of it comes down to an age thing -> immaturity and the lack of life experience and tolarence.
But to quote @somedude from another tread "it's enough people" Please keep your maners and talk to others as you would like them to address you and keep an open mind.
I think this is something for the new council to take up for descussion and correct somehow. I really think it's a problem here on TMO and only getting worse and it can pop up in any kind of thread.
One last thing this also regards when people are requesting apps. They get told off with a "code it yourself if you want it" or "go piss off and buy a phone that it's available on" and offensive and demeaning comments like that.
Hope this gets better in the near future.
Regards Dousan...
I can honestly say this community has picked up the wrong kind of people to be it's members and the very reason Meamo and Meego will never ever come to anything but the shambles it is today REASON = too many bullies and not enough brain cells among any of them to accomplish anything but a shambles.
The good members who could have accomplished something have long gone due to the bad behaviour on here leaving only a hand full left of any good whatsoever.
Well said and i give you my blessings for having the courage to vent in the way you have.
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Is it not one of the main points of a forum to collect information and knowledge in a presentable manner so that we may reap the benefits of the shortest route to it?
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