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| The Following User Says Thank You to GeneralAntilles For This Useful Post: | ||
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2008-05-16
, 02:46
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Posts: 5,795 |
Thanked: 3,151 times |
Joined on Feb 2007
@ Agoura Hills Calif
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#12
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I think it's a mistake to draw a bunch of conclusions about someone who may have bought a bunch of N800s at a good price. Maybe he's trying to pay for his kid's leukemia bills.
I would guess that the overwhelming number of people in the world have made a profit from time to time. Some of those people might have been stoned for usury once. But that in was the Middle Ages.
I don't think that hating some anonymous person who might not even exist is a wise move, and basing your purchasing habits on the proported actions of this person seems unsound.
I would guess that the overwhelming number of people in the world have made a profit from time to time. Some of those people might have been stoned for usury once. But that in was the Middle Ages.
I don't think that hating some anonymous person who might not even exist is a wise move, and basing your purchasing habits on the proported actions of this person seems unsound.
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2008-05-16
, 02:46
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Posts: 11,700 |
Thanked: 10,045 times |
Joined on Jun 2006
@ North Texas, USA
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#13
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Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles
The qualifiers should be assumed in my post given the context (I did acknowledge regular supply and demand). But as I amended, petroleum (and ergo gasoline) no longer follow supply-and-demand and have not for years now. Unfortunately, recognizing a scarcity economy is almost always a hindsight sort of vision.
Well, yes and no. In the typical usage of the term "price-gouging" (which basically seems to just mean regular old supply and demand), I'd disagree—in that sense, it's a good thing, as it keeps the demand from grossly outstripping supply (as happens every time a hurricane rolls around in Florida), slows down the runs on emergency supplies, and helps keep certain individuals from buying way more than they need.
In the sense of abusing an emergency situation to jack prices beyond what demand justifies, well, right or wrong, who cares? Unless there's some major price-fixing conspiracy involving all suppliers, the market will take care of the issue itself and people will go elsewhere.
As it is, "price-gouging" laws mostly just result in insane rushes to pick up supplies people don't need and little incentive for suppliers to go to extra lengths to get more supplies to the area.
And while it betrays my cynical side, you seem to imply altruism on the part of producers that isn't there. Most operate out of self-interest (nothing really natively wrong with that) which at the peak and into the decline of any process starts working against the process. Thus the regulatory safeguards that many naively decry as unnecessary-- although they would be if we lived in Utopia.
Collusion also creates the same result. Ah, if only the gears of economy were naturally oiled and defect-free...
__________________
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
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2008-05-16
, 04:17
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Posts: 772 |
Thanked: 183 times |
Joined on Jul 2005
@ Montclair, NJ (NYC suburbs)
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#14
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Originally Posted by Texrat
Not to get too far off-topic here, but Paul Krugman blew that canard to pieces in Monday's paper.
Crude would be under $100 per barrel if not for the speculation.
/reverse-rant
__________________
N900 Guide Brief intro to the Nokia N900 (http://n900guide.com/)
Maemoan since July 2005 )
N900 Guide Brief intro to the Nokia N900 (http://n900guide.com/)
Maemoan since July 2005 )
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2008-05-16
, 05:09
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Posts: 477 |
Thanked: 118 times |
Joined on Dec 2005
@ Munich, Germany
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#15
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Personally, I find that buying 14 machines to sell them at a profit qualifies as investment. And there is a risk: maybe this person will be left sitting on his 14 N800s with nobody interested to buy them. For example, if the price of the N810 would drop (not saying it will), this buyer will not be able to make a profit.
And I should say that I bought 10 N800s a month ago myself. They were sold out in Europe and relatively cheap in the US. Most of them were actually reserved for friends before the order, and I did not sell them for a profit (since I sold them to friends).
And I should say that I bought 10 N800s a month ago myself. They were sold out in Europe and relatively cheap in the US. Most of them were actually reserved for friends before the order, and I did not sell them for a profit (since I sold them to friends).
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2008-05-16
, 11:39
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Posts: 11,700 |
Thanked: 10,045 times |
Joined on Jun 2006
@ North Texas, USA
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#16
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Originally Posted by RogerS
Eh, that's an opinion column, and others with at least as much credibility assert that speculation IS a factor. I'm inclined to believe the latter. Not saying it's the only factor, though. Scarcity (real or merely perceived) is the big one... speculators just play on that.
Not to get too far off-topic here, but Paul Krugman blew that canard to pieces in Monday's paper.
/reverse-rant
__________________
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
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2008-05-16
, 11:58
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Posts: 833 |
Thanked: 124 times |
Joined on Nov 2007
@ Based in the USA
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#17
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Originally Posted by Jerome
And that's always the chance.
Personally, I find that buying 14 machines to sell them at a profit qualifies as investment. And there is a risk: maybe this person will be left sitting on his 14 N800s with nobody interested to buy them. For example, if the price of the N810 would drop (not saying it will), this buyer will not be able to make a profit.
And I should say that I bought 10 N800s a month ago myself. They were sold out in Europe and relatively cheap in the US. Most of them were actually reserved for friends before the order, and I did not sell them for a profit (since I sold them to friends).
AAA pays $160@
Tries to fleabay for $200
NOTE THAT THE WARRANTY DOES NOT TRANSFER
from nokia
The limited warranty extends only to the original purchaser ("Consumer") of the Product and is not assignable or transferable to any subsequent purchaser/end-user.
AAA gets to sit on remaining stock
__________________
N810, iGo bt kb, Diablo, 10Gb storage onboard instead of a Thinkpad
OTG w/ unlimited storage!!
Put a penguin in your pocket!!
PLEASE use the Wiki
N810, iGo bt kb, Diablo, 10Gb storage onboard instead of a Thinkpad
OTG w/ unlimited storage!!
Put a penguin in your pocket!!
PLEASE use the Wiki
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2008-05-16
, 12:40
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Posts: 5,795 |
Thanked: 3,151 times |
Joined on Feb 2007
@ Agoura Hills Calif
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#18
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The nice thing about Krugman is that though he is a raving partisan, he always makes his reasoning clear. The implication above is that you choose who you believe based on their "credibility". I think the actual contents of their reasoning has something to do with it as well. This particular column seemed well-reasoned.
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2008-05-16
, 12:57
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Posts: 11,700 |
Thanked: 10,045 times |
Joined on Jun 2006
@ North Texas, USA
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#19
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Originally Posted by geneven
It *seemed* well-reasoned but was very, very light on detail. My take on Krugman's piece there is that he expects the beauty of his own verbiage to carry his argument. Sorry, to me it doesn't. Persuasive writing takes more than a command of language and a comfort with the topic.
The nice thing about Krugman is that though he is a raving partisan, he always makes his reasoning clear. The implication above is that you choose who you believe based on their "credibility". I think the actual contents of their reasoning has something to do with it as well. This particular column seemed well-reasoned.
I am biased the other way on his argument due to a variety of factors, one of which is my own familiarity with how markets work and having witnessed the reality of conspiratorial speculation first-hand (some naive family members lost a lot of money when the Hunt brothers manipulated the silver market years ago). As far as I'm concerned, it's extremely disingenuous to make the bold claim that speculation is not a factor in ANY commodity's price. And given that we have supposedly reached peak production vis-a-vis petroleum (based on conventional wisdom and technology) then it only stands to reason that both true scarcity AND speculation will combine to drive the price of oil up-- to some extent, artificially (the *some* is why I fall more in line with conservative estimates of oil's over-pricing rather than the hyperbolic statements of under $75). That artificial aspect is a common outcome in any scarcity economy. Fear is a powerful motivational tool.
EDIT: really, Krugman's article is little more than elegant naysaying.
__________________
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
Last edited by Texrat; 2008-05-16 at 13:00.
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2008-05-16
, 13:20
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Posts: 1,310 |
Thanked: 820 times |
Joined on Mar 2006
@ Irving, TX
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#20
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Guys, before you keep arguing about the oil price etc... read this (yes, I know it is long...), think with your own brain, and then make your judgment:
http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/Index.html
http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/Index.html
| The Following User Says Thank You to Mara For This Useful Post: | ||
In the sense of abusing an emergency situation to jack prices beyond what demand justifies, well, right or wrong, who cares? Unless there's some major price-fixing conspiracy involving all suppliers, the market will take care of the issue itself and people will go elsewhere.
As it is, "price-gouging" laws mostly just result in insane rushes to pick up supplies people don't need and little incentive for suppliers to go to extra lengths to get more supplies to the area.