POLL: Should talk.maemo.org create and support a dark theme like the original ITT? - Page 2 - maemo.org

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	Jaffa	2009-05-01 , 22:13
	Posts: 2,535 \| Thanked: 6,681 times \| Joined on Mar 2008 @ UK	#11

Originally Posted by fatalsaint

I get that some people like the new theme and want it by default (especially for new users).. ok, great, fantastic.

Indeed. A single, unified, distinct and user friendly brand across the entirety of the community home seems pretty important to me. Excellent we agree it should be the default (you kind of spoil this later with "why do we need something custom?? *any* other option(s) beside the default, or minimalistic" [the latter is custom, AIUI)

What I don't get is that we already had an iTT theme running before this theme, it's already built, already made, what's the problem with simply allowing a person, should they so choose, to select "original iTT theme" in the theme selection box?

Some possible reasons:

Reggie wanted to (or felt like he should) have a clean slate for the look and feel as ITT rebrands as t.m.o
vBulletin has been upgraded. The theme may, indeed, have been incompatible.
vBulletin's themeing isn't as good we think, and there were structural changes to the PHP pages required to get the look & feel working. The old theme just wouldn't work anymore.
The old theme would've inherited some elements (say, a header) from the new theme and looked crap. Reggie didn't want to deliver (in his eyes) crap.

There's even entire vbulletin forums with free themes available.. why do we need something custom?? *any* other option(s) beside the default, or minimalistic. Although, I think I'm preferring minimalistic.. except that it's - well - minimal in functionality.

Well, if you're arguing for the return of the default vBulletin theme (which isn't that wildly different in feel, to me, to this new theme - which is why I like it), that's kinda off-topic for this thread about trying to get "Maemo.org" to create & support an inverted colour theme.

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	penguinbait	2009-05-01 , 22:15
	Posts: 3,096 \| Thanked: 1,525 times \| Joined on Jan 2006 @ Michigan, USA	#12

Originally Posted by Jaffa

Such as asking people to create themes and scratch their own itch? (I admit the positions are getting entrenched, but you're not helping either)

Is this going back to the council homepage being a one-stop shop for community information? The council homepage links to planet.maemo.org and maemo.org/news/; and I don't expect everyone to come to us for news. Instead, we try to make sure that all appropriate places are being kept in the loop - whilst trying to keep collaboration contained in a single space.

For the concrete example of exactly how this was successfully done for exactly what the new theme would look like across maemo.org (including talk.maemo.org), see Tim's post on one of the myriad of other threads on this topic.

Look, I should belong to this mailing list, but not all 5 just this mailing list, and you should read all the blogs written by council members, and read the wiki and all the meeting logs.

I understand what role you are playing, I am telling you what I am proposing for my candidacy,

The problem is specifically, you are all to close to it, you all know whats going on, but most people don't, and you don't see this as a problem. You see this as "their" problem

Things are easy to find when you know where to look, but what if you don't know where to look.

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	Jaffa	2009-05-01 , 22:40
	Posts: 2,535 \| Thanked: 6,681 times \| Joined on Mar 2008 @ UK	#13

Originally Posted by penguinbait

Look, I should belong to this mailing list, but not all 5 just this mailing list, and you should read all the blogs written by council members, and read the wiki and all the meeting logs.

No! Tim's point, which I was specifically supporting, is that the role of the council is not to say "you should read this, this, this, this, this and that". It's to ensure that people following any of the mailing lists, planet.maemo.org, maemo.org news, the council blog, the wiki, meeting logs, IRC or ITT/talk are aware of what's going on.

And Tim demonstrated that, in this specific example, that's exactly what we did:

Originally Posted by timsamoff

Lots of emails.

On the wiki.

Some blog posts.

Even some meeting logs.

Even here and here.

I'm not sure where the communication wasn't evident...?

Other examples include council blog posts like:

These are examples of activity on ITT/talk being pushed by the council on the planet/news and, ultimately, the front-page of maemo.org. Similarly, discussion on ITT/IRC/mailing lists/bug reports is continually being re-distributed by council members (and other active community members).

This is the role of the council, and people get elected to the council for doing it (not talking about doing it).

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	mullf	2009-05-01 , 22:50
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Originally Posted by Jaffa

Some possible reasons:
Reggie wanted to (or felt like he should) have a clean slate for the look and feel as ITT rebrands as t.m.o

vBulletin has been upgraded. The theme may, indeed, have been incompatible.

vBulletin's themeing isn't as good we think, and there were structural changes to the PHP pages required to get the look & feel working. The old theme just wouldn't work anymore.

The old theme would've inherited some elements (say, a header) from the new theme and looked crap. Reggie didn't want to deliver (in his eyes) crap.

Instead of screwing around guessing at the reason, why not just wait until someone who knows give us the reason? (Assuming we are worthy of knowing.)

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fatalsaint	2009-05-01 , 22:51
Posts: 3,428 \| Thanked: 2,856 times \| Joined on Jul 2008	#15

Originally Posted by Jaffa

Indee d. A single, unified, distinct and user friendly brand across the entirety of the community home seems pretty important to me.

And as I said, this is fine. But why should we be force fed it? If I *want* to change to a different theme, why should that be restricted? By default, a unified interface, great! But OPTIONALLY a different one. Should Mer/Deblet/Android and everything else done on the tablets be discontinued because we should be *forced* to view the "unified" maemo interface?

Excellent we agree it should be the default(you kind of spoil this later with "why do we need something custom?? *any* other option(s) beside the default, or minimalistic" [the latter is custom, AIUI)

Correct.. the default and the minimalistic are the custom ones. They are the ones the maemo.org put their time and effort into to build. And I am appreciative of that and wouldn't require maemo's paid team or anyone to *build* any other options. The custom is the default... as is with most forums. But for the *alternative* theme(s); why can we not use freely available theme's for vbulletin? That requires 0 work to build; and only requires the forum admin to import it and enable it.

A 2 second google search led me to find: http://vbskins.com/

On the first page, I saw: http://vbskins.com/theme/dark-futura.html

Now.. does that *have* to be the alternative? No of course not.. it's just one that jumped out at me as looking similar to the old itt in format, although the colors are different, and still a dark theme that PB and others like him want. Is there some particular reasons why grabbing free themes like that is out of the question?

Some possible reasons:
snip

I appreciate your list here but all of these I understood and know. Hence why I *asked* if they were incompatible. I am a System Admin that has managed several forums and was asking if someone could specifically tell me the technical reason why it was not allowed as an alternative. If it was a political reason, and not technical, then that is the answer I want. Most other upgrades or mergers I've seen on forums I was a member too changed to the new layout by default, but still allowed the old just for those people that didn't want "change". I know Obama is the president.. but still..

Well, if you're arguing for the return of the default vBulletin theme (which isn't that wildly different in feel, to me, to this new theme - which is why I like it), that's kinda off-topic for this thread about trying to get "Maemo.org" to create & support an inverted colour theme.

I was merely suggesting it as an alternative. If it's compatible, it would take like 5 minutes to add it and shut everyone up? If it's not compatible that's a different story. And I see about a dozen threads on this same topic.. They all revolve around the theme. Sure, 3 are polls with different wording, there are at least 2 full 25+ page discussion threads with different OP wording... but the core of all of these are the same. So if my choice of thread to respond in is not to your liking just insert my comments to any of the other needlessly extensive threads around here regarding the theme that you feel it's more of a fit for..

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	penguinbait	2009-05-01 , 22:55
	Posts: 3,096 \| Thanked: 1,525 times \| Joined on Jan 2006 @ Michigan, USA	#16

Originally Posted by Jaffa

No! Tim's point, which I was specifically supporting, is that the role of the council is not to say "you should read this, this, this, this, this and that". It's to ensure that people following any of the mailing lists, planet.maemo.org, maemo.org news, the council blog, the wiki, meeting logs, IRC or ITT/talk are aware of what's going on.

And Tim demonstrated that, in this specific example, that's exactly what we did:

Other examples include council blog posts like:
"Maemo School" proposal needs volunteers

http://maemo.org/community/council/c... highlights...

These are examples of activity on ITT/talk being pushed by the council on the planet/news and, ultimately, the front-page of maemo.org. Similarly, discussion on ITT/IRC/mailing lists/bug reports is continually being re-distributed by council members (and other active community members).

This is the role of the council, and people get elected to the council for doing it (not talking about doing it).

Look if you don't want to vote for me, thats your prerogative. You think things are great that's your problem.

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	Jaffa	2009-05-01 , 22:55
	Posts: 2,535 \| Thanked: 6,681 times \| Joined on Mar 2008 @ UK	#17

Originally Posted by fatalsaint

[big snip]I was merely suggesting it as an alternative.

Thanks for the more constructive post. I know my reasons were pulled out of my arse, but I wouldn't blame Reggie for avoiding getting into this thread when he could be fixing bugs in the new theme (or doing the day job!)

If it's compatible, it would take like 5 minutes to add it and shut everyone up? If it's not compatible that's a different story.

And would it shut everyone up?! ;-)

So if my choice of thread to respond in is not to your liking just insert my comments to any of the other needlessly extensive threads around here regarding the theme that you feel it's more of a fit for..

:-)

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	Jaffa	2009-05-01 , 23:00
	Posts: 2,535 \| Thanked: 6,681 times \| Joined on Mar 2008 @ UK	#18

Originally Posted by penguinbait

Look if you don't want to vote for me, thats your prerogative. You think things are great that's your problem.

No, I want to do a better job now. Restating "there's a problem" over and over again doesn't help (much).

I explained what we were trying to do, and how making people come to the council homepage for news, didn't seem like the best idea to me.

I assume you don't want us to stop what many active forum members are doing (sharing things they know) between the spaces they collaborate in, so have you any tips before I cede my seat to you in 5 months' time?

Specifically, you now know as much as we knew then. You can see the meeting minutes. You can see the mailing lists. You can see the blog posts, the threads here, the IRC logs, the Google search results and so on. You want to disseminate what you know: how would you do it?

PS. FWIW, if you are someone who doesn't want to trawl these places trying to ensure that as many people know as much as possible - rather than just valiantly representing them - you won't like being a council member.

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fatalsaint	2009-05-01 , 23:03
Posts: 3,428 \| Thanked: 2,856 times \| Joined on Jul 2008	#19

Originally Posted by Jaffa

And would it shut everyone up?! ;-)

Well.. Let me say this... if it WAS available but required a total of 4 mouse clicks to get it back.. and people were complaining about the new theme... I bet you'd find that they would have significantly less support. Many people, myself included, would tell them the classic "use the search" response so they could find the inevitable tutorial that would come about titled "How to change back to the iTT theme".

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	Reggie	2009-05-01 , 23:17
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Man, I don't think some will ever get it. It's a shame that all this disagreement will just take toll on the community. It's not a matter of just reactivating an old theme, nor just get a pre-built theme off the shelf. It's all about our image as a community! What kind of message are we going to give the future members with a disjoint theme and all this bickering. More on my other post.

Oh, there's another reason: