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2009-05-06
, 01:18
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Posts: 3,096 |
Thanked: 1,525 times |
Joined on Jan 2006
@ Michigan, USA
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#12
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Originally Posted by qgil
Look I am not trying to force anything on anyone. I say I have no solution. I see a problem. I think we need a mechanism to help keep people involved who maybe have things going on in their life, and if they go see hey, we are talking about a change they might have time to read that thread. If they have to search all of ITT and read the entire thread to find out what is going on, less people will be involved in making the decisions, and changes will continue top upset users.
There was a proposal made on 2009-03-10 that was discussed through a week and about 50 posts before Reggie executed the changes.
You might argue that was a short period of time. Fair enough. On the othr hand if you follow the posters and the thanks you see that most of the usual suspects had a say, so it looked like having reached a critical mass for a change.
No votes, but no huge discussion either. There were many opinions and the original proposal evolved to integrate them.
I notice this is the opposite approach you have: throw a poll first and discuss after. Well, in my experience discussion helps to reach consensus while polls tend to stress divisions and polarize the debate. This is why I think voting is a last resort for making community decisions, not the first one.
of those other two polls, around 75 user / 150 users voted. How many of them voiced their opinion in the thread?? Not 75/150, So poll numbers help shore up and support positions and give validity to people opinions. In fact if you look at the thread, the opinions appear pretty evenly matched, while the polls show quite a different outcome.
It's like in this poll. You say "I don't have an answer, I only post to you my problem as I see it." but in fact you do have an answer and quite clear. The poll is a means for you to know how much support you get for that answer: "I want my advocates "Maemo Community Council" to promote important issues up to the community for discussion in a consistent manner in a consistent location." (2h after opening the poll)
You could have started with the proposal you actually have in mind asking for feedback to contest it or improve it.
Yes I ran a poll, if people don't agree with me, that must mean they are keeping informed and not confused. If they do agree with me, this must mean that people are confused about where exactly they should be looking.
Yes, I said I want my advocates to support this, why is that a bad thing? The council represents the community, so in my mind it was a no brainer. The council votes on what needs full community input and promotes this forward as a larger more visible topic.
__________________
To all my Maemo friends. I will no longer be monitoring any of my threads here on a regular basis. I am no longer supporting anything I did under maemo at maemo.org. If you need some help with something you can reach me at tablethacker.com or www.facebook.com/penguinbait. I have disabled my PM's here, and removed myself from Council email and Community mailing list. There has been some fun times, see you around.
To all my Maemo friends. I will no longer be monitoring any of my threads here on a regular basis. I am no longer supporting anything I did under maemo at maemo.org. If you need some help with something you can reach me at tablethacker.com or www.facebook.com/penguinbait. I have disabled my PM's here, and removed myself from Council email and Community mailing list. There has been some fun times, see you around.
Last edited by penguinbait; 2009-05-06 at 03:01.
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2009-05-06
, 02:02
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Posts: 610 |
Thanked: 391 times |
Joined on Feb 2006
@ DC, USA
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#13
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Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles
They could always be, you know, invited here.
> The maemo-community list sounds like redundant now. Most of the people active there are active here. We clould consider closing it and we would have one redundant channel less.
Most is really not enough, however.
Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles
I could have predicted that.
I'm against this proposal, personally.
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2009-05-06
, 02:18
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Posts: 1,605 |
Thanked: 1,601 times |
Joined on Mar 2007
@ Southern California
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#14
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Originally Posted by penguinbait
Most of these items are usually summed up in some way (if not in the form of actual aggregated posts) at http://maemo.org/news/planet-maemo/ .
There have been a lot of changes going on around here. Lots of discussions, and lots of people missing them...
That aside, I'm all for extirpating some of the mailing lists (or all of them) now that talk.maemo.org exists. This is a completely applicable...er...forum for that sort of discussion to occur.
Tim
__________________
http://samoff.com
http://samoff.com
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2009-05-06
, 02:33
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Posts: 5,478 |
Thanked: 5,222 times |
Joined on Jan 2006
@ St. Petersburg, FL
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#15
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Originally Posted by mullf
It's not a matter of awareness.
They could always be, you know, invited here.
Some people really don't like forums.
Originally Posted by mullf
I'm sure you could, but I'm also sure you haven't the slightest inkling of why.
I could have predicted that.
The solution here is the mailing list integration into vBulletin, not the closing of a list and the certain loss of several important members.
__________________
Ryan Abel
Ryan Abel
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2009-05-06
, 02:34
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Posts: 3,096 |
Thanked: 1,525 times |
Joined on Jan 2006
@ Michigan, USA
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#16
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Originally Posted by timsamoff
I don't mind using the forum, I just think then there should be a sub-forum that topics are only startable by Maemo Council or Maemo proper or Reggie or Quim or whoever should be on that list.
Most of these items are usually summed up in some way (if not in the form of actual aggregated posts) at http://maemo.org/news/planet-maemo/ .
That aside, I'm all for extirpating some of the mailing lists (or all of them) now that talk.maemo.org exists. This is a completely applicable...er...forum for that sort of discussion to occur.
Tim
Not sure if this is even possible? I just don't want stuff to be all over the place, unless there is a central location to tell you where that is.
Although perhaps a sub-forum where anyone can open threads, but all the "active topics" are sticky set by council/reggie/quim/mods ?
Again I said I don't have any answers I am stuck on, I am just throwing out Ideas
__________________
To all my Maemo friends. I will no longer be monitoring any of my threads here on a regular basis. I am no longer supporting anything I did under maemo at maemo.org. If you need some help with something you can reach me at tablethacker.com or www.facebook.com/penguinbait. I have disabled my PM's here, and removed myself from Council email and Community mailing list. There has been some fun times, see you around.
To all my Maemo friends. I will no longer be monitoring any of my threads here on a regular basis. I am no longer supporting anything I did under maemo at maemo.org. If you need some help with something you can reach me at tablethacker.com or www.facebook.com/penguinbait. I have disabled my PM's here, and removed myself from Council email and Community mailing list. There has been some fun times, see you around.
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2009-05-06
, 03:22
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Posts: 1,605 |
Thanked: 1,601 times |
Joined on Mar 2007
@ Southern California
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#17
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Originally Posted by penguinbait
Is there something wrong with http://maemo.org/community/council/ ?
...I just think then there should be a sub-forum that topics are only startable by Maemo Council or Maemo proper or Reggie or Quim or whoever should be on that list...
Just wondering. Do these items need to be here instead of there? If so, that's fine, but I'd like some sort of justifiable reason.
Tim
__________________
http://samoff.com
http://samoff.com
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2009-05-06
, 09:43
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Posts: 968 |
Thanked: 974 times |
Joined on Nov 2008
@ Ohio
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#18
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Originally Posted by timsamoff
I think GA put it best:
Is there something wrong with http://maemo.org/community/council/ ?
Just wondering. Do these items need to be here instead of there? If so, that's fine, but I'd like some sort of justifiable reason.
Tim
Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles
I think *most* read the forums and *less than most* read the other multiple sources. Why not aggregate that information in the forums and get *more than most* readership. Shouldn't take more than a minute or two to copy and paste text into a new thread, or provide a link and a quick synopsis.
Most is really not enough, however. I'm against this proposal, personally.
Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles
and some really don't like mailing lists, irc, blogs, etc
It's not a matter of awareness.
You name it and I'm sure you can find someone who hates it.
Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles
correct, bearing in mind that ignoring pleas for better communication (or other issues) would lead to the certian loss of other important members.
The solution here is the mailing list integration into vBulletin, not the closing of a list and the certain loss of several important members.
Last edited by lemmyslender; 2009-05-06 at 09:48.
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2009-05-06
, 11:15
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Posts: 2,853 |
Thanked: 968 times |
Joined on Nov 2005
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#19
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Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles
I'm with GA here. I really don't get all this talk of closing down this or that channel to keep only one's preferred medium. What happened to syndication ? That's what the Internet (not just the Web) is for, and I see it happen everywhere.
It's not a matter of awareness.
The solution here is the mailing list integration into vBulletin, not the closing of a list and the certain loss of several important members.
Granted, I'm not into IRC at all, I spend the bulk of my maemo community time on ItT out of habit, and do a mediocre job of keeping in touch with the rest of maemo.org and its multiple blogs, mailing lists & such. That doesn't mean others should be just like me, and those other channels should be shut down.
What if, for example, each time a new post is made on the maemo community council blog, a new topic was created (automatically, not manually when Quim or Tim or someone thinks to do it) in the relevant section on ItT, and said blog had comments disabled to the benefit of redirecting discussion about that post to said topic ?
It would be enough to alert me when something important is brewing that I'd have missed otherwise (like redesigning the forum theme :-),
It would make me more likely to participate,
It would concentrate more community input on a medium that's designed for discussions instead of a galaxy of so-so blog commenting systems, making it more easily searchable,
It would would draw more people living on other levels to the forum, and more people living in the forum to the rest of maemo.org, which I believe was the original goal.
Of course, for this to really work we'd really need to have SSO enable throughout the entire maemo.org space :-)
Last edited by fpp; 2009-05-06 at 11:17.
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2009-05-06
, 11:41
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Posts: 3,096 |
Thanked: 1,525 times |
Joined on Jan 2006
@ Michigan, USA
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#20
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Look the point of the thread is to get people to discuss and hopefully agree on a single location where this information will live, and this information is distributed to the community.
Where and in what medium is less important to me than who is reponsible for determining what is defined as needing community input. And that it executed in a consistent documented manner.
It seems to me that community council is best informed and able to determine if some topic should be raised to a more visible spot. Especially since they are charged with being an advocate for thed community.
I don't think these topics should be mixed with blogs or other information, this should be clear to any user visiting that these are topics the community wants input on.
webpage, email, forum, all fine by me, lets just pick one
To be clear, this is not a request to close or stop any current medium. Its an attempt to filter community specific information into a single location to avoid problems that have been happening here recently, or at least problems perceived by some.
Last edited by penguinbait; 2009-05-06 at 12:08.
Where and in what medium is less important to me than who is reponsible for determining what is defined as needing community input. And that it executed in a consistent documented manner.
It seems to me that community council is best informed and able to determine if some topic should be raised to a more visible spot. Especially since they are charged with being an advocate for thed community.
I don't think these topics should be mixed with blogs or other information, this should be clear to any user visiting that these are topics the community wants input on.
webpage, email, forum, all fine by me, lets just pick one
To be clear, this is not a request to close or stop any current medium. Its an attempt to filter community specific information into a single location to avoid problems that have been happening here recently, or at least problems perceived by some.
__________________
To all my Maemo friends. I will no longer be monitoring any of my threads here on a regular basis. I am no longer supporting anything I did under maemo at maemo.org. If you need some help with something you can reach me at tablethacker.com or www.facebook.com/penguinbait. I have disabled my PM's here, and removed myself from Council email and Community mailing list. There has been some fun times, see you around.
To all my Maemo friends. I will no longer be monitoring any of my threads here on a regular basis. I am no longer supporting anything I did under maemo at maemo.org. If you need some help with something you can reach me at tablethacker.com or www.facebook.com/penguinbait. I have disabled my PM's here, and removed myself from Council email and Community mailing list. There has been some fun times, see you around.
Last edited by penguinbait; 2009-05-06 at 12:08.
| The Following User Says Thank You to penguinbait For This Useful Post: | ||
Ryan Abel