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arj	2009-07-31 , 18:19
Posts: 20 \| Thanked: 6 times \| Joined on Jul 2008	#11

zerojay: yeah canola has always had a zero or nothing approach to the UI I think. Not sure if its good or bad, I just know that it's a lot of work having everything written to your UI. But the services that are written form a much tighter experience than if it where single apps. So I guess it has it's pros and cons.

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	zerojay	2009-07-31 , 18:44
	Posts: 2,669 \| Thanked: 2,555 times \| Joined on Apr 2007 @ Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada	#12

Well, what I don't understand is why Canola doesn't have it's OWN SoC project submissions separate from Maemo/Tablet project submissions. It monopolized SoC... and SoC's pretty much supposed to be about pushing projects that would benefit a lot of people that use Maemo.

Instead we're seeing spots that could have been used for some cool stuff for Maemo as a whole being wasted on one particular application that myself and a lot of others don't use. Oh, and then Memphis is announced... which is based on Canola being done by ProFusion. So ProFusion is going to get a lot of benefit from this SoC stuff... so why didn't THEY sponsor SoC submissions instead of Nokia? And it's all going to duplicating functionality. Why? So that ProFusion can put out their car entertainment devices and make a buck.

It feels like a slap in the face for us tablet users. What a waste.

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	timsamoff	2009-07-31 , 18:48
	Posts: 1,605 \| Thanked: 1,601 times \| Joined on Mar 2007 @ Southern California	#13

Originally Posted by zerojay

Well, what I don't understand is why Canola doesn't have it's OWN SoC project submissions separate from Maemo/Tablet project submissions. It monopolized SoC... and SoC's pretty much supposed to be about pushing projects that would benefit a lot of people that use Maemo.

Instead we're seeing spots that could have been used for some cool stuff for Maemo as a whole being wasted on one particular application that myself and a lot of others don't use. Oh, and then Memphis is announced... which is based on Canola being done by ProFusion. So ProFusion is going to get a lot of benefit from this SoC stuff... so why didn't THEY sponsor SoC submissions instead of Nokia? And it's all going to duplicating functionality. Why? So that ProFusion can put out their car entertainment devices and make a buck.

It feels like a slap in the face for us tablet users. What a waste.

Pretty harsh words, but I can see where you're coming from.

But, as all things Maemo usually are, the content proposals and Content Committee were all announced and organized long ago:

http://wiki.maemo.org/GSoC_2009

There was plenty of time to state cases and argue about things such as this.

Tim

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	VDVsx	2009-07-31 , 19:10
	Posts: 1,070 \| Thanked: 1,604 times \| Joined on Sep 2008 @ Helsinki	#14

Originally Posted by zerojay

Well, what I don't understand is why Canola doesn't have it's OWN SoC project submissions separate from Maemo/Tablet project submissions. It monopolized SoC... and SoC's pretty much supposed to be about pushing projects that would benefit a lot of people that use Maemo.

The process was open for everybody in the maemo community, and if you don't like/use canola, that doesn't mean others don't use it.

Originally Posted by zerojay

Instead we're seeing spots that could have been used for some cool stuff for Maemo as a whole being wasted on one particular application that myself and a lot of others don't use. Oh, and then Memphis is announced... which is based on Canola being done by ProFusion. So ProFusion is going to get a lot of benefit from this SoC stuff... so why didn't THEY sponsor SoC submissions instead of Nokia?

Nokia didn't sponsored anything, all the SoC initiative was done and led by community people, and the canola folks belong to that community, they, unlike others, have done things for the community, instead of only ranting in forums.

Originally Posted by zerojay

And it's all going to duplicating functionality. Why? So that ProFusion can put out their car entertainment devices and make a buck.
It feels like a slap in the face for us tablet users. What a waste.

Ranting is easy isn't it ?
As I said the process was open for everybody.
Why didn't you expressed your opinion in time ?
As somebody use to say in these forum "less talk, more action".

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	qgil	2009-07-31 , 19:23
	Posts: 3,105 \| Thanked: 11,088 times \| Joined on Jul 2007 @ Mountain View (CA, USA)	#15

Originally Posted by zerojay

So ProFusion is going to get a lot of benefit from this SoC stuff... so why didn't THEY sponsor SoC submissions instead of Nokia?

Nokia didn't sponsor anything at GSoC 2009. It was a community process, as Tim points out.

The fact of having several Canola projects was discussed, and there were different opinions. In any case there were many many projects presented related to Canola, that had been recently opened. They also offered qualified mentors and got involved in the work and discussions.

I think it was an impeccable community process. And don't get me wrong, you can also find quotes from me questioning the amount of Canola projects. But that was the community decision and I *happily* accepted as community member. If the work of these students helps making Canola a sexy straightforward framework for media consumption in the automotive industry, all the better for the project, the students and the companies betting on free software technologies.

Besides, Gustavo Barbieri has contributed a lot to many free software projects and one can only wish him best luck in the business adventures!

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Last edited by qgil; 2009-07-31 at 19:25.

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	qgil	2009-07-31 , 19:28
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PS and VDVsx knows well because he had the first initiative and he carried with a lot of work of promotion, coordination, chasing people to vote and etc.

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	zerojay	2009-07-31 , 20:40
	Posts: 2,669 \| Thanked: 2,555 times \| Joined on Apr 2007 @ Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada	#17

Originally Posted by qgil

PS and VDVsx knows well because he had the first initiative and he carried with a lot of work of promotion, coordination, chasing people to vote and etc.

Yes, and he deserves that credit and no one is taking that away from him. What I am saying is nothing personal against him in any way shape or form.

Originally Posted by VDVsx

The process was open for everybody in the maemo community, and if you don't like/use canola, that doesn't mean others don't use it.

Correct and that's fine. They can like and use it all they want. I know full well that "a lot" of people do use Canola (whatever "a lot" means anyways...)

Originally Posted by VDVsx

Nokia didn't sponsored anything, all the SoC initiative was done and led by community people, and the canola folks belong to that community, they, unlike others, have done things for the community, instead of only ranting in forums.

You're right about the sponsorship, my mistake. You're also right... I've never done *anything* for this community *ever*.

Originally Posted by VDVsx

Ranting is easy isn't it ?
As I said the process was open for everybody.
Why didn't you expressed your opinion in time ?
As somebody use to say in these forum "less talk, more action".

Against this, yes. It's VERY easy.

You want to know why I didn't express my opinion on time? Take a look at my previous posts. I have no interest in reopening old wounds by spelling it all out for you now.

It's nothing against the guys that work on Canola... I'm sure they all work hard on it and they need help and that's fine. I'm just absolutely shocked that the community would make these choices in light of some of the many other things the community as a whole have wanted and been much more vocal about, such as an integrated PIM app, whereas I've never once heard anyone say they needed an IM app within Canola. Or Remember the Milk. (Not even a Remember the Milk app for the tablets, which makes sense... but a plugin for Canola?)

Where is the list of final votes from the community on this SoC list? I can't find anything on the forum or on the site showing a tabulated list of votes for the projects to be accepted in SoC. For an open community process, it sure seems hard to find. All I see is that Google announced which apps were accepted.

Maemo's a rich mixture of applications from across the board and everyone has a wildly different set of use cases with their tablets as anyone that's ever been here on the forums can see. So how does one app get most of the attention? Something just doesn't add up.

"less talk, more action," you say. That's why I'm going to try to make sure that future SoCs should limit the amount of projects that can be accepted/submitted per application so that a greater spectrum of the Maemo userbase can benefit from SoC, not just a subset. So that benefits from SoC are felt not just by those that use one application, and not just by power users but *everyone*.

You may see it as ranting, but it's only through irritation that a clam can create a pearl.

But yeah, I don't ever do anything for the community.

Last edited by zerojay; 2009-07-31 at 21:00.

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	VDVsx	2009-07-31 , 21:05
	Posts: 1,070 \| Thanked: 1,604 times \| Joined on Sep 2008 @ Helsinki	#18

Originally Posted by zerojay

You want to know why I didn't express my opinion on time? Take a look at my previous posts. I have no interest in reopening old wounds by spelling it all out for you now.

It's nothing against the guys that work on Canola... I'm sure they all work hard on it and they need help and that's fine. I'm just absolutely shocked that the community would make these choices in light of some of the many other things the community as a whole have wanted and been much more vocal about, such as an integrated PIM app, whereas I've never once heard anyone say they needed an IM app within Canola. Or Remember the Milk. (Not even a Remember the Milk app for the tablets, which makes sense... but a plugin for Canola?)

I understand your point, and others also raised this issue, but SoC doesn't work that way. The students propose projects following some given ideas, we can't obligate them to do a specific project.
Some projects around PIM were suggested, but we didn't received any good student application for these. Other projects were also suggested but again, we not had mentors available for mentoring these projects.

Originally Posted by zerojay

Where is the list of final votes from the community on this SoC list? I can't find anything on the forum or on the site showing a tabulated list of votes for the projects to be accepted in SoC. For an open community process, it sure seems hard to find. All I see is that Google announced which apps were accepted.

Well, we have to play by Google rules, the evaluation of the proposals is made in a private system, only the mentors and backup mentors can vote, but these roles were open for anyone that wants to WORK a bit, and we (mentors) also accepted several suggestions, raised in the community discussion about SoC

If you want to take this discussion further, please open a new thread for that propose.

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Last edited by VDVsx; 2009-07-31 at 21:17.