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2010-01-11
, 20:45
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Posts: 87 |
Thanked: 40 times |
Joined on May 2007
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#12
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Crash recovery without data loss (or with limited data loss) is generally not an easy task and requires working brain. Look, you need to:
1) Fetch failed partition from device.. Haha, now if device already failed to boot, you simply can't do it at all due to quite stupid boot loader. At least I know no documented ways of doing so.
2)Then you need to mount filesystem image on your PC from a file. No, Windows can't do that at all (especially for UbiFS, etc). So you would have some troubles with getting a single-button windoze app to fix this. Surprise, surprise.
3) Then you need to edit partition to fix issues. It's not very easy to decide automatically which "useless" data to remove.
4) Then corrected partition have to be uploaded back to device.
Do you really think all this is easy to implement as single-button solution and worth of required amount of efforts?
For relatively simple methods, use flasher to upload empty FS image to a device, this may be counted as "freeing disk space" too, though it's destructive and all installed apps will be gone of course :P.
P.S. IMHO it would be cool if Nokia would improve or replace boot loader + flasher bundle to allow us more advanced recovery like fetching problematic partition from device, fixing it manually and re-uploading it. This could allow to recover user's data in the case of emergency, or even fix booting, etc. Some decent boot loaders like u-boot allow this trick. Nokia's ones are not documented and do not allow such things at all, at least I found no obvious ways to do so, etc. In this sense Nokia devices are bad in terms of "debricking". I seen devices like routers, NASes, etc with much better and smarter boot loaders who allow much better crash recovery procedures.
1) Fetch failed partition from device.. Haha, now if device already failed to boot, you simply can't do it at all due to quite stupid boot loader. At least I know no documented ways of doing so.
2)Then you need to mount filesystem image on your PC from a file. No, Windows can't do that at all (especially for UbiFS, etc). So you would have some troubles with getting a single-button windoze app to fix this. Surprise, surprise.
3) Then you need to edit partition to fix issues. It's not very easy to decide automatically which "useless" data to remove.
4) Then corrected partition have to be uploaded back to device.
Do you really think all this is easy to implement as single-button solution and worth of required amount of efforts?
For relatively simple methods, use flasher to upload empty FS image to a device, this may be counted as "freeing disk space" too, though it's destructive and all installed apps will be gone of course :P.
P.S. IMHO it would be cool if Nokia would improve or replace boot loader + flasher bundle to allow us more advanced recovery like fetching problematic partition from device, fixing it manually and re-uploading it. This could allow to recover user's data in the case of emergency, or even fix booting, etc. Some decent boot loaders like u-boot allow this trick. Nokia's ones are not documented and do not allow such things at all, at least I found no obvious ways to do so, etc. In this sense Nokia devices are bad in terms of "debricking". I seen devices like routers, NASes, etc with much better and smarter boot loaders who allow much better crash recovery procedures.
| The Following User Says Thank You to PowerUser For This Useful Post: | ||
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2010-01-11
, 21:03
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Posts: 543 |
Thanked: 181 times |
Joined on Aug 2009
@ Universe,LocalCluster.MilkyWay.Sol.Earth.Europe.Slovenia.Ljubljana
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#13
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Provide an initramfs with a 1-2 second delay to type in something like e to get a shell... requires a kernel with fbcon. Then one can operate on the device and fix it.
Would be nice to get uboot instead of NOLO as well.
Would be nice to get uboot instead of NOLO as well.
__________________
For any repos or anything else I might have working on my N900 see:
http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Ruskie
A quick list of what I have in the repos
zsh|xmms2|fcron|gtar|gcoreutils
For any repos or anything else I might have working on my N900 see:
http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Ruskie
A quick list of what I have in the repos
zsh|xmms2|fcron|gtar|gcoreutils
| The Following User Says Thank You to ruskie For This Useful Post: | ||
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2010-01-11
, 21:45
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Posts: 2,050 |
Thanked: 1,425 times |
Joined on Dec 2009
@ Bucharest
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#14
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I would frankly love a tradeoff app.
E.g, locate the largest stuff that is on the rootfs, then move and link it, ideally with checkboxes.
I, for one, need dome libqt4 for an app I can't give up. The whole package consists of one libqt4-whatever.so that's 20 MB. Add a checkbox, move to installable fs and link back.
Unchecking the box in front of it deletes the link and moves the file back so that apt-get can do stuff to it. For example uncheck apps before updating.
It's not hard, the app Storage Usage builds a list of packages, ordered by size, and greens or reds them as they are optified or not. Now add an option to push the package back and forth and we're done.
Lovely part is we could push packages that come with the OS (within limits), such as gaining a meg or so via the welcome video. There's also a few megs in Chinese fonts. If anything ever displays Chinese on my phone then correctly rendered is perfectly equal to incorrectly rendered because I can't tell.
That would be useful. Uninstalling stuff I can do by hand via point and click. Also, uninstalling all alpha stuff is pointless as extras have non-fully-optified packages, or are themselves non-fully-optified.
E.g, locate the largest stuff that is on the rootfs, then move and link it, ideally with checkboxes.
I, for one, need dome libqt4 for an app I can't give up. The whole package consists of one libqt4-whatever.so that's 20 MB. Add a checkbox, move to installable fs and link back.
Unchecking the box in front of it deletes the link and moves the file back so that apt-get can do stuff to it. For example uncheck apps before updating.
It's not hard, the app Storage Usage builds a list of packages, ordered by size, and greens or reds them as they are optified or not. Now add an option to push the package back and forth and we're done.
Lovely part is we could push packages that come with the OS (within limits), such as gaining a meg or so via the welcome video. There's also a few megs in Chinese fonts. If anything ever displays Chinese on my phone then correctly rendered is perfectly equal to incorrectly rendered because I can't tell.
That would be useful. Uninstalling stuff I can do by hand via point and click. Also, uninstalling all alpha stuff is pointless as extras have non-fully-optified packages, or are themselves non-fully-optified.
__________________
N900 dead and Nokia no longer replaces them. Thanks for all the fish.
Keep the forums clean: use "Thanks" button instead of the thank you post.
N900 dead and Nokia no longer replaces them. Thanks for all the fish.
Keep the forums clean: use "Thanks" button instead of the thank you post.
| The Following User Says Thank You to ndi For This Useful Post: | ||
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2010-01-11
, 21:48
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Posts: 3,617 |
Thanked: 2,412 times |
Joined on Nov 2009
@ Cambridge, UK
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#15
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If you've installed the firmware update, you should be able to gain space by uninstalling & reinstalling libqt4 - new installs will use a higher compression setting with the new firmware.
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2010-01-11
, 22:56
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Posts: 3,203 |
Thanked: 1,391 times |
Joined on Nov 2009
@ Worthing, England
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#16
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Originally Posted by PowerUser
Crash recovery without data loss (or with limited data loss) is generally not an easy task and requires working brain. Look, you need to:
1) Fetch failed partition from device.. Haha, now if device already failed to boot, you simply can't do it at all due to quite stupid boot loader. At least I know no documented ways of doing so.
2)Then you need to mount filesystem image on your PC from a file. No, Windows can't do that at all (especially for UbiFS, etc). So you would have some troubles with getting a single-button windoze app to fix this. Surprise, surprise.
3) Then you need to edit partition to fix issues. It's not very easy to decide automatically which "useless" data to remove.
4) Then corrected partition have to be uploaded back to device.
Do you really think all this is easy to implement as single-button solution and worth of required amount of efforts?
For relatively simple methods, use flasher to upload empty FS image to a device, this may be counted as "freeing disk space" too, though it's destructive and all installed apps will be gone of course :P.
P.S. IMHO it would be cool if Nokia would improve or replace boot loader + flasher bundle to allow us more advanced recovery like fetching problematic partition from device, fixing it manually and re-uploading it. This could allow to recover user's data in the case of emergency, or even fix booting, etc. Some decent boot loaders like u-boot allow this trick. Nokia's ones are not documented and do not allow such things at all, at least I found no obvious ways to do so, etc. In this sense Nokia devices are bad in terms of "debricking". I seen devices like routers, NASes, etc with much better and smarter boot loaders who allow much better crash recovery procedures.
some very good ideas in there
I think its clear in my aim that the audience is the non techy. This doesn't discount more advanced groups of tools for advanced users, but when we tell people, get this app to do this, then sudo that, apt that etc..... a small collection of useful tools could be good.... (For some, again not all)
In this case a simple SaveMe tool, its aim is to help people when the rootfs is full. - now that could be done in a number of ways - and hopefully people can add their solutions to the brainstorm
I think a few other tools could be made to almost make a basic survival toolkit
- do some of the advanced commands, but with some safety (Yes i understand the irony and probable issues with that)
__________________
----------- Follow me on Twitter here
----------- My Photography Website and Blog is here
----------- Author of the N900 Health Check Application ----------- New Version in Extras Devel (Dec 2010 - 2.9.10)
----------- Are you on the N900 World Map? - http://pininthemap.com/maemo - masterpin: shotgun
----------- What apps do you want to see on the n900 or in MeeGo in the future? -
----------- Follow me on Twitter here
----------- My Photography Website and Blog is here
----------- Author of the N900 Health Check Application ----------- New Version in Extras Devel (Dec 2010 - 2.9.10)
----------- Are you on the N900 World Map? - http://pininthemap.com/maemo - masterpin: shotgun
----------- What apps do you want to see on the n900 or in MeeGo in the future? -
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2010-01-12
, 00:08
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Administrator |
Posts: 1,036 |
Thanked: 2,019 times |
Joined on Sep 2009
@ Germany
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#17
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Originally Posted by noobmonkey
yes deborphan is a debian tool to point out unused and undepended packages - orphaned .deb's
Not heard off it - i'm assuming this is a debian app? - if there is already something that does this it should really be promoted and be given a user friendly name?
man deborphan gives
Code:
DESCRIPTION deborphan finds packages that have no packages depending on them. The default operation is to search only within the libs and oldlibs sections to hunt down unused libraries.
__________________
useful links for newcomers: New members say hello, New users start here, Community subforum, Beginners' wiki page, Maemo5 101, FAQ
useful links for newcomers: New members say hello, New users start here, Community subforum, Beginners' wiki page, Maemo5 101, FAQ
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2010-01-12
, 00:11
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Posts: 3,203 |
Thanked: 1,391 times |
Joined on Nov 2009
@ Worthing, England
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#18
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Originally Posted by chemist
Sounds good
yes deborphan is a debian tool to point out unused and undepended packages - orphaned .deb's
man deborphan gives
Code:DESCRIPTION deborphan finds packages that have no packages depending on them. The default operation is to search only within the libs and oldlibs sections to hunt down unused libraries.
- could it be used in this way, or as part of this idea in a simplified gui for people? (Or is it possible?)
__________________
----------- Follow me on Twitter here
----------- My Photography Website and Blog is here
----------- Author of the N900 Health Check Application ----------- New Version in Extras Devel (Dec 2010 - 2.9.10)
----------- Are you on the N900 World Map? - http://pininthemap.com/maemo - masterpin: shotgun
----------- What apps do you want to see on the n900 or in MeeGo in the future? -
----------- Follow me on Twitter here
----------- My Photography Website and Blog is here
----------- Author of the N900 Health Check Application ----------- New Version in Extras Devel (Dec 2010 - 2.9.10)
----------- Are you on the N900 World Map? - http://pininthemap.com/maemo - masterpin: shotgun
----------- What apps do you want to see on the n900 or in MeeGo in the future? -
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2010-01-12
, 00:52
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Administrator |
Posts: 1,036 |
Thanked: 2,019 times |
Joined on Sep 2009
@ Germany
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#19
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Originally Posted by noobmonkey
if there arent any conflicts... we could just ask the HAM guys to include it as part of it. (file a bug?)
Sounds good
deborphan drops a list of libs which could easily be used to do something like
Code:
apt-get remove <deborphan-list>
__________________
useful links for newcomers: New members say hello, New users start here, Community subforum, Beginners' wiki page, Maemo5 101, FAQ
useful links for newcomers: New members say hello, New users start here, Community subforum, Beginners' wiki page, Maemo5 101, FAQ
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2010-01-12
, 08:00
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Posts: 1,671 |
Thanked: 11,478 times |
Joined on Jun 2008
@ Warsaw, Poland
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#20
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Two ways to go about this, - a specially crafted rootfs on microsd that is a rescue mode of sorts and an accompanying kernel that boots this rootfs. Or one manually installed which uses fanoush'es bootmenu.
__________________
As you go on to other communities, remember to build them around politeness, respect, trust and humility. Be wary of poisonous people and deal with them before they end up killing your community.. Seen it happen to too many IRC channels, forums, open source projects.
As you go on to other communities, remember to build them around politeness, respect, trust and humility. Be wary of poisonous people and deal with them before they end up killing your community.. Seen it happen to too many IRC channels, forums, open source projects.
| The Following User Says Thank You to Stskeeps For This Useful Post: | ||
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| Tags |
| disaster, recovery, saveme |
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Not heard off it - i'm assuming this is a debian app? - if there is already something that does this it should really be promoted and be given a user friendly name?
----------- Follow me on Twitter here
----------- My Photography Website and Blog is here
----------- Author of the N900 Health Check Application ----------- New Version in Extras Devel (Dec 2010 - 2.9.10)
----------- Are you on the N900 World Map? - http://pininthemap.com/maemo - masterpin: shotgun
----------- What apps do you want to see on the n900 or in MeeGo in the future? -