This might notbe true remember maemo is open about it's problems so everyone can see and disucss them. With closed platforms like palm, iPhone, ms they never mention bugs/faults and issues unless someone exploits them here it is shared so it may appear there are more problems when iPhone or palm probably has just as many issues of different types but just don't tell anyone

Even though the 2008 platform may be dying, I estimate that there are more 2008 OS users than n900 users currently. From a simple numbers perspective, doesn't it make sense to create apps that keep people using these "older" devices? FYI, I bought my n810 on ebay about a year ago. It replaced my Sony NX70V Palm OS AND my PSP which I only used for web and media.

I'll look into playlist.com and see if they have an API to call them directly, in which case I can do a python app that'll work for both..

If they don't - then I'll have to see if there is something similar for linux that can be ported. But again - if it gets to this level, it's going to wholly depend on what dependencies are available for the N900 and N8x0 device.

If neither a Linux app, nor an API exists for Playlist.com.. then not much I can do.

Not unless the developer himself has one.. or there is a financial gain to it. Offering a bounty or reward *may* net some results where simple requests fail.

Please don't underline entire posts.. it's very hard to read.

OK, will switch to Italic then.

Hah.. Italics don't work when quoting - it all looks the same lol.

If you want to add comments to a quote.. colors are probably your best bet.. but also you don't need to make the underneath body of your post the exact same as your replies above.. usually people can figure it out .

Yes.. it is a *a* flaw I see.. but the problem here isn't so much the Open Development as the consumers.

If the consumers of the N8x0 devices were more willing to pay for apps from developers, or at least consistently donate, then more apps would be made for them. Unfortunately, most of the consumers of a device like this want Free Apps.. and as such - when your device isn't the hottest thing on the market you get left behind. Nature of the beast.

I personally have not purchased or bought a single app on my Google G1 phone... I always find free ones. They may not be "open source" free.. but free to me to use.

I have also donated to apps that were free.. although admittedly not as much as I should.

But how many people can actually say they've donated for a Free app? How many people have sent money to Mandrake, Ubuntu, SuSE, etc.. for their work on free operating systems?

There is obviously *some*.. those distro's -do- make money.. but I haven't seen much in the mobile community.

I have never ambitiously developed for Palm devices, but have a few of them still lying around in a drawer. I have read a beginners guide on C++ on these things, and I hated it. I was only 15 or so at the time, but some things stick.

I enjoyed it so much more to just whip up a simple interface in glade and write a really short script in python around it for my n800. That was so easy, it's ridiculous. Although I sucked at python, and will likely continue to do so.

That's why my opinion doesn't really count from a developers perspective, but rather from the perspective of a power user playing with his little computer and having a good nerd time.

@fatalsaint: This is probably a time waster but here goes

I disagree about the consumer being the problem with available apps.

Since the development community sets the standard and has created the open system on their terms, the end user follows and meets the expectation.

The same was true in the Palm world a few years ago. I paid $500 for my Sony Clie (in 2002!) and spent another + or - $300 in apps because there was NO OTHER way to get the apps I WANTED.
Not to mention there were several full fledged corporations (Data-Viz) that saw the opportunity as a revenue stream and FORMALLY went after the market. Due to this, it wasn't uncommon to see apps selling for $24.95 (even though I thought that was high)!

We haven't even brought Windows Mobile into the equation!

Now, the process repeats itself with developers moving to the "Freemium" model with the iPhone and recently Android. The difference between the iPhone platform and Maemo platform is shear volume. The iPhone developers can hit gold if their app takes off, as $1 a piece times a million sales equals an effort well worth their time. This is why the market was flooded with iPhone apps. All of those developers were hoping to "hit the lottery"!

Back to the Palm model: their issue was that there were never enough users to make a volume model work like iPhone. So, they went for what ever the market would bare and sold apps from $10 - $25.

So, as I see it, the "FLAW" is that to be successful in an open platform, it has to be that all the users have the skills to contribute, of which, I am NOT one. And, you can't tell people you are open and free and then turn around and expect to get paid.

The other issue is that there is the old, "You get what you pay for" issue which is in this case, nothing. Most of these apps are NOT of a commercial grade. Many are very much past that and their developers are to be commended for their efforts! For the apps that fall short, if the guy isn't getting paid, their is no incentive to take his project from 80% complete to at least 99% complete and that is where we are at in the case of the n810 falling short. And, I don't blame this on those developers either. This is why I say the MODEL fails. Other than monetary gain (we all have to make a living with our time out the door), EGO would be the secondary motivator.

But, I AM VERY appreciative to those of you willing to put in the effort to make this possible.

Finally, would I have paid full price for my n810 like I did with my Clie? NO WAY! And I probably won't ever do it again with this type of device especially when it comes to the n900. But I am no where near ready to bail out on my NIT yet! Even with the flaws, I use it four to six hours a day.

If only the iPad worked with Flash AND a stylus, it would be the perfect Photoshop and Wacom replacement device via sumopaint.com! But try doing serious Graphic work with your finger...NOT!

See and you and me have a fundamental differing of opinion there. The Open model allows for both paid and free apps, and of the free apps - donations.

There still is ways for the consumer to drive people to develop for their platform if they *want* too. They pay for it.

Like you said.. you get what you pay for: If you're not willing to spend a dime on your N800 to get more use out of it.. nobody out here is willing to put their time and effort into making your N800 useful for you.

You have two choices with a device like this: Do it yourself, or pay someone to do it. This is also the same with Android.. however with the iPhone it's harder. Unless you're jailbreaked you need to be an official developer and upload to the app market to be able to use your new app you wrote for yourself.

So really.. the only option there becomes to pay for it. You either pay apple, or you pay a developer.. either way you're paying.

That is why I like and will spend money on devices such as this.. if it gets to the point that I am missing something I want I can do it myself without interference from an overlord.. or having to pay someone.

However, if I was incapable of doing it myself - then I would offer $$ to a developer that could if it was really that important to me. Otherwise.. I go without. That is entirely a personal choice.. and a choice that belongs in the hands of every consumer. Not Apple, Not Google and Not Nokia.

If you put up a thread offering $80-$100 for a new app for the N8x0.. depending on the complexity of the app.. I will bet you get at least some answers. Now.. working out the payment details: half now, half on completion, all on completion, using an escrow, whatever will be between you and the developer to try and avoid anybody getting screwed.

ETA: As an example, my app. I have a link to a donation in my sig that is quite clear - and I know at least 7 (they voted) and I am going to make a conservative guess that at least 10-12 people have used at least one if not both of my apps since I put it up into extras-devel. Also included are a very small number of N8x0 users.

I have not received a dime in donations for it. So here I am, developing apps for a phone I don't even have - spending time and effort merely because I think it's cool to have an app in the Maemo Repo's for the new N900. Do I demand payment from people? No of course not.. am I ungrateful to all the guys that voted for pianobar and haven't paid me? Absolutely not. (In fact I'm grateful that they *voted*.. that seems to be a monster to get votes, and they're free!) I didn't make the app to get rich, i did it because I wanted to.. but that mentality is not going to help people with old devices that nobody owns. People, generally, do not do things for things they don't have for fun. I just happen to be slightly psychotic. If people find the app worth $$ then great, if they don't they don't.. no big deal.

In all fairness I should note that I have received a couple offers of discount coupons for the N900.. unfortunately all of them come with an expiration date: and without getting any actual money to build up to paying even the discounted price I must regretfully decline the offers. But.. to those people I am truly appreciative that they offered.