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2010-07-12
, 17:34
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Posts: 267 |
Thanked: 408 times |
Joined on May 2010
@ Austria
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#12
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Originally Posted by ArchiMark
True, but it's a shame that the percentage of "drop outs" is actually higher than without a code creator, for those who fall prey to human laziness wouldn't necessarily have made bad developers (especially since developers are lazy by definition
Good points, Naithraben....
As I've been teaching myself programming over the past few years off and on, I can fully relate to your points...
However, I don't think that ALL people trying out this approach, will try and then just stop if they hit a roadblock, at least a small percentage I would think might be inspired to seek out more knowledge. The rest will just drop out as you're suggesting...which is OK too...
).Then again, like you wrote, it helps with people creating simple apps for themselves, so manpower is not "wasted" on doing it for them. I guess that way it kind of compensates for the lower number of developers.
So, in my opinion, it's a bit harmful from a developer's point of view but actually a bit of an advantage for the community itself.
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2010-07-12
, 17:41
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Posts: 4,384 |
Thanked: 5,524 times |
Joined on Jul 2007
@ ˙ǝɹǝɥʍou
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#13
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I'm not sure if this thing will take away programmer 'candidates' than actually add a class of 'casual programmers' who have more potential to take the steps further to learn a more structured approach to programming.
I think these casual programmers will bring interesting apps from their respective fields of interests, which are certainly broader than what is currently there already.
And more meow apps.
I think these casual programmers will bring interesting apps from their respective fields of interests, which are certainly broader than what is currently there already.
And more meow apps.
__________________
Class .. : Power User
Humor .. : [#####-----] | Alignment: Pragmatist
Patience : [###-------] | Weapon(s): Galaxy Note + BB Bold Touch 9900
Agro ... : [###-------] | Relic(s) : iPhone 4S, Atrix, Milestone, N900, N800, N95, HTC G1, Treos, Zauri, BB 9000, BB 9700, etc
Class .. : Power User
Humor .. : [#####-----] | Alignment: Pragmatist
Patience : [###-------] | Weapon(s): Galaxy Note + BB Bold Touch 9900
Agro ... : [###-------] | Relic(s) : iPhone 4S, Atrix, Milestone, N900, N800, N95, HTC G1, Treos, Zauri, BB 9000, BB 9700, etc
Follow the MeeGo Coding Competition!
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2010-07-12
, 17:45
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Posts: 2,050 |
Thanked: 1,425 times |
Joined on Dec 2009
@ Bucharest
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#14
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This has been done before, multiple times, and has gone two ways:
* the no-typing way (done by Microsoft, and way better): Dead before it hit the ground. Works well for hello world, meow, but on the next step it's way faster by keyboard, and before the first 2 days you feel like the whole graphical thing is holding back. If you spend 4 weeks doing an app that can be summed to 10 lines you're doing it wrong.
* the start easy-then-type (done by everyone, it's called a RAD Tool). Works great to speed up the repetitive task of adding buttons, arranging, assigning components. Once these are done, you F12 back to the editor and type like there's no tomorrow. Point being, you have to code, there is no help there.
Either way, all it did was raise absolutely-zero level to can-make-an-app-that-meows, by teaching you nothing. The curve hasn't changed, if you want to write an app you still need to learn to code.
Besides, all it did is ensure there are going to be a shovel-load of stupid, do-nothing, click to make funny sound apps. It will look good in 5 months when Android has 1 million apps. It's just that 950.000 can be replaced by 4 lines of code.
I still hold hope, though. Embarcadero is reviving Kylix code and, with just a bit of luck, it could come to ARM.
* the no-typing way (done by Microsoft, and way better): Dead before it hit the ground. Works well for hello world, meow, but on the next step it's way faster by keyboard, and before the first 2 days you feel like the whole graphical thing is holding back. If you spend 4 weeks doing an app that can be summed to 10 lines you're doing it wrong.
* the start easy-then-type (done by everyone, it's called a RAD Tool). Works great to speed up the repetitive task of adding buttons, arranging, assigning components. Once these are done, you F12 back to the editor and type like there's no tomorrow. Point being, you have to code, there is no help there.
Either way, all it did was raise absolutely-zero level to can-make-an-app-that-meows, by teaching you nothing. The curve hasn't changed, if you want to write an app you still need to learn to code.
Besides, all it did is ensure there are going to be a shovel-load of stupid, do-nothing, click to make funny sound apps. It will look good in 5 months when Android has 1 million apps. It's just that 950.000 can be replaced by 4 lines of code.
I still hold hope, though. Embarcadero is reviving Kylix code and, with just a bit of luck, it could come to ARM.
__________________
N900 dead and Nokia no longer replaces them. Thanks for all the fish.
Keep the forums clean: use "Thanks" button instead of the thank you post.
N900 dead and Nokia no longer replaces them. Thanks for all the fish.
Keep the forums clean: use "Thanks" button instead of the thank you post.
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2010-07-12
, 17:50
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Posts: 4,384 |
Thanked: 5,524 times |
Joined on Jul 2007
@ ˙ǝɹǝɥʍou
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#15
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One thing is certain: we need a meow app to remain competitive.
It's the new hello world.
It's the new hello world.
__________________
Class .. : Power User
Humor .. : [#####-----] | Alignment: Pragmatist
Patience : [###-------] | Weapon(s): Galaxy Note + BB Bold Touch 9900
Agro ... : [###-------] | Relic(s) : iPhone 4S, Atrix, Milestone, N900, N800, N95, HTC G1, Treos, Zauri, BB 9000, BB 9700, etc
Class .. : Power User
Humor .. : [#####-----] | Alignment: Pragmatist
Patience : [###-------] | Weapon(s): Galaxy Note + BB Bold Touch 9900
Agro ... : [###-------] | Relic(s) : iPhone 4S, Atrix, Milestone, N900, N800, N95, HTC G1, Treos, Zauri, BB 9000, BB 9700, etc
Follow the MeeGo Coding Competition!
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2010-07-12
, 18:00
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Posts: 414 |
Thanked: 109 times |
Joined on Mar 2007
@ Silicon Valley
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#16
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Originally Posted by ysss
And if we want to take the lead from Apple and Android, we should have a meow/fart app....2 apps in 1!!!!
One thing is certain: we need a meow app to remain competitive.
It's the new hello world.
__________________
Mark
Silicon Valley Digerati
Nokia N900
Previous: Nokia N810 & N800
Mark
Silicon Valley Digerati
Nokia N900
Previous: Nokia N810 & N800
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2010-07-12
, 18:08
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Posts: 1,559 |
Thanked: 1,786 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
@ Boston
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#17
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Originally Posted by ArchiMark
That supports half a dozen cryptic command line parameters, of course.
And if we want to take the lead from Apple and Android, we should have a meow/fart app....2 apps in 1!!!!
meowfart --type bobcat --juicy 4 --osso-hack-around-silent-mode true
Agree with comments on shifting, but not actually lowering, learning curve.
__________________
Unofficial PR1.3/Meego 1.1 FAQ
Unofficial PR1.3/Meego 1.1 FAQ
***
Classic example of arbitrary Nokia decision making. Couldn't just fallback to the no brainer of tagging with lat/lon if network isn't accessible, could you Nokia?
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2010-07-12
, 18:11
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Posts: 670 |
Thanked: 367 times |
Joined on Mar 2009
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#18
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Originally Posted by ndi
This is a great point, b/c app count is endlessly quoted in newspaper articles. The next step, of course, is asking how many apps are not junk, but this is much harder to measure. App count is very important in the press, and here Maemo's practice of resetting the app count to zero every time a new version of the OS comes out has just GOT to be fixed in MeeGo (related thread is here).
It will look good in 5 months when Android has 1 million apps. It's just that 950.000 can be replaced by 4 lines of code.
This kind of thing might also generate more niche apps. The value of a huge app store is the same value as cable: not that you really need all those channels, but if you have all those channels, it increases the chance that you'll find one right for you.
It also might be a path for people to get into serious programming. What if people use the tool & get the hang of it, but run up against its barriers? Well, have it spit out code in the language (Java or Python or whatever) and then learn that language? I admit -- I'm not sure how often this will really happen, but I have to think it will whet at least some people's appetites.
It might also be a way for middle-grade programmers to quickly put together an interface and then hook in the more complicated plumbing later.
__________________
* n810 since Feb 2009
* Most-used apps: Opera, gPodder, Panucci, Tomiku, Canola, Quasar, MaemoMapper, ATI85, Maemopad+, AisleRiot Solitaire, Anagramarama, Rapier, Gnumeric, pyRDesktop
* Mobile-friendly URLs of popular sites
* n810 since Feb 2009
* Most-used apps: Opera, gPodder, Panucci, Tomiku, Canola, Quasar, MaemoMapper, ATI85, Maemopad+, AisleRiot Solitaire, Anagramarama, Rapier, Gnumeric, pyRDesktop
* Mobile-friendly URLs of popular sites
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2010-07-12
, 18:13
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Posts: 4,556 |
Thanked: 1,624 times |
Joined on Dec 2007
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#19
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Originally Posted by ysss
Somebody has to make the make noise, drink beer, etc.. apps. Heck maybe that will companies will have developers make apps that need to be apps instead of something that could be run off a simple webpage. :P
I'm not sure if this thing will take away programmer 'candidates' than actually add a class of 'casual programmers' who have more potential to take the steps further to learn a more structured approach to programming.
I think these casual programmers will bring interesting apps from their respective fields of interests, which are certainly broader than what is currently there already.
And more meow apps.
__________________
Originally Posted by ysss
They're maemo and MeeGo...
"Meamo!" sounds like what Zorro would say to catherine zeta jones... after she slaps him for looking at her dirtily...
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2010-07-12
, 18:45
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Guest |
Posts: n/a |
Thanked: 0 times |
Joined on
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#20
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Originally Posted by ndi
Hell yes! I still have my boxed copy laying around. Too bad Kylix is nothing more than Delphi, but that's what I used second most with OpenGL back in the day.
Embarcadero is reviving Kylix code and, with just a bit of luck, it could come to ARM.
| The Following User Says Thank You to For This Useful Post: | ||
Good points, Naithraben....
As I've been teaching myself programming over the past few years off and on, I can fully relate to your points...
However, I don't think that ALL people trying out this approach, will try and then just stop if they hit a roadblock, at least a small percentage I would think might be inspired to seek out more knowledge. The rest will just drop out as you're suggesting...which is OK too...
Mark
Silicon Valley Digerati
Nokia N900
Previous: Nokia N810 & N800