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| The Following User Says Thank You to fms For This Useful Post: | ||
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2010-08-20
, 18:54
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Posts: 3,159 |
Thanked: 2,023 times |
Joined on Feb 2008
@ Finland
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#12
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Originally Posted by fms
just wait a while. there has been major leaps after kisstester came out....
QA list should be shrunk. The number of required votes should be reduced from 10 to 5. Because even now, most people have switched from Extras to Extras-Testing or even Extras-Devel. Your golden goose is dead, starved by extensive restrictions on its diet. Get used to that.
I think the problem is lack of tools, not some criteria which all make sense.
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2010-08-20
, 20:51
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Posts: 3,319 |
Thanked: 5,610 times |
Joined on Aug 2008
@ Finland
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#13
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Originally Posted by fms
I will repeat myself once more. "to have a repository where developers can upload their work for everyone to use" is extras-devel. Devs upload, and whoever wants to, uses, no guarantees or strings attached. If it burns your house down, too bad. Extras is "to have a repository where end-users can download reasonably functional/safe software from. It doesn’t mean of course that it is foolprof (even commercial QA isn’t that), but it means at least someone bothered to install it and see what it does.
Unfortunately, that intent has now been replaced with "to have a repository where developers can upload their work for everyone to use", i.e. the original goal of Extras.
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Blogging about mobile linux - The Penguin Moves!
Maintainer of PyQt (see introduction and docs), AppWatch, QuickBrownFox, etc
Blogging about mobile linux - The Penguin Moves!
Maintainer of PyQt (see introduction and docs), AppWatch, QuickBrownFox, etc
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2010-08-21
, 06:57
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Posts: 1,418 |
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Joined on Feb 2008
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#14
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Originally Posted by attila77
Actually, no. Quoting from http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras-devel :
I will repeat myself once more. "to have a repository where developers can upload their work for everyone to use" is extras-devel.
The software hosted in extras-devel is not ready for normal users! PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't play with it unless you really know what you are doing. Be ready to file proper bug reports instead of posting complaints.
We can argue about this topic forever, but you only need to relate to the definitions in the Wiki to see what the original purpose of each repository has been. Please, do so.
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2010-08-21
, 07:08
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Posts: 3,319 |
Thanked: 5,610 times |
Joined on Aug 2008
@ Finland
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#15
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Originally Posted by fms
Okay, without making this a terminology debate, let's get a little more factual. First, I know first hand plenty of people not using it so it would be prudent to have at least some numbers before blanket statements to the contrary are made. Second, the super-tester effort is exactly reducing the number of required approvers (based on their previous input). Third, you don't need to use that hideous web site UI, I personally encourage you to use (and contribute to) kisstester.
So, Extras-devel is not for everyone to use. It is only for people who really know what they are doing. As it stands now though, Extras-testing and Extras-devel are being used to just about everyone, because the actual repository destined for that use (Extras) has been rendered useless by obstructive promotion policies (i.e. QA guidelines and the number of required approvers) and mechanisms (i.e. the hideous web site UI).
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Blogging about mobile linux - The Penguin Moves!
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Blogging about mobile linux - The Penguin Moves!
Maintainer of PyQt (see introduction and docs), AppWatch, QuickBrownFox, etc
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2010-08-21
, 07:45
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Posts: 3,159 |
Thanked: 2,023 times |
Joined on Feb 2008
@ Finland
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#16
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Originally Posted by fms
yes and no. yes you can add it easily to your repository list and it works just like any repository. don't get distracted by the warnings, those are there for the people who don't bother to do any research.
So, Extras-devel is not for everyone to use. It is only for people who really know what they are doing.
just tell me then how you would deal with repos? please keep in mind that in order extras to be enabled by default, the contents has to be tested and controlled.
I know devs don't want to write stuff that makes ones device to freeze but one guy can never test an app such thorougly unless he/she has dozen devices wirh different apps etc installed....
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K.I.S.S. approach:
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2010-08-21
, 09:45
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Posts: 3,319 |
Thanked: 5,610 times |
Joined on Aug 2008
@ Finland
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#17
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Originally Posted by attila77
After a bit of pondering - this will be very hard to analyse. Comparing direct numbers is not really possible, as the download numbers do not reflect the ratio of users that have extras-devel enabled on a regular basis (e.g. if you install a version that is present in Extras, that will count as extras even if you have extras-devel enabled, but error is possible the othey way, too - just because someone turned extras-devel on for a single package doesn't mean he keeps it turned on constantly).
as for actual statistics, I’ll try and see whether we can get a more detailed split from downloads so this "most people" thing can be put into perspective.
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Blogging about mobile linux - The Penguin Moves!
Maintainer of PyQt (see introduction and docs), AppWatch, QuickBrownFox, etc
Blogging about mobile linux - The Penguin Moves!
Maintainer of PyQt (see introduction and docs), AppWatch, QuickBrownFox, etc
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2010-08-21
, 11:24
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Posts: 1,418 |
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Joined on Feb 2008
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#18
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Originally Posted by attila77
Rather than ponder about it so extensively, why not compare the total numbers of downloads from Extras, Extras-Testing and Extras-Devel? That will give you an overall figure of how popular each repository is.
After a bit of pondering - this will be very hard to analyse. Comparing direct numbers is not really possible, as the download numbers do not reflect the ratio of users that have extras-devel enabled on a regular basis (e.g. if you install a version that is present in Extras, that will count as extras even if you have extras-devel enabled, but error is possible the othey way, too - just because someone turned extras-devel on for a single package doesn't mean he keeps it turned on constantly).
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2010-08-21
, 12:13
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Posts: 1,635 |
Thanked: 1,816 times |
Joined on Apr 2008
@ Manchester, England
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#19
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sounds like people are thumbing up things that work for them rather than things that pass all specific testing criteria.
roll on KISSTester!
http://maemo.org/packages/view/kisstester/
roll on KISSTester!
http://maemo.org/packages/view/kisstester/
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2010-08-22
, 09:49
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Posts: 3,319 |
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Joined on Aug 2008
@ Finland
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#20
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Originally Posted by fms
As I said, unless you're able to link the number of downloads to number of users, it's pointless. As they get updates more often and will try out more packages, people tracking extras-devel are bound to have more downloads 'per person'. As we don't know HOW much more (2:1 ? 10:1 ? 100:1 ?), comparing number of downloads mean little with regard to comparing number of users (which would define 'repository popularity').
Rather than ponder about it so extensively, why not compare the total numbers of downloads from Extras, Extras-Testing and Extras-Devel? That will give you an overall figure of how popular each repository is.
But all that is besides the point - as long as there ARE people who require such a safe-zone (and there are, even in this thread), if we can, we should provide them with such thing. If these people are not your target audience, why push software onto them by force ? Note that Harmattan will be even more susceptible to this - my bet would be that the vast majority of users of that device will be completely clueless when it comes to extras-devel type of stuff.
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Blogging about mobile linux - The Penguin Moves!
Maintainer of PyQt (see introduction and docs), AppWatch, QuickBrownFox, etc
Blogging about mobile linux - The Penguin Moves!
Maintainer of PyQt (see introduction and docs), AppWatch, QuickBrownFox, etc
Computer and Console Emulators for Maemo, Symbian, and more.
Pack Rat: The Maemo Package Aggregator.