No, I have not heard of this effort, tell me more!

Have a look here: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/mobil...ne/thread.html
Some older threads might also be of interest. Also I recently got word that this initiative is moving again, not public at the moment, but the Gnome Foundation should announce something soon and it should be in our interest, e.g. sponsoring someone we might know. Or at least, so they say...

Great!
I have spoken in passing to some of my Collabora workmates about this and Gnome (and beyond) involvement also, so knowing that they are already on this path is great news
We do need a more coordinated place to discuss and centralise everything.

From my understand any work Gnome should also be doing this work will be publicly too, so once you get more info, paste here and I will ensure to coordinate.

/me joins the gnome ML

This is a very forward thinking speech, it seems. But a lot of people are still holding on to a bit of bitterness due to their prior treatment on all things Maemo.

It begs to question... who will ever address that? Addressing that doesn't seem to be a priority by anybody. And the shift from GTK to Qt doesn't seem to be in the interest of all of the devs.

Do any metrics exist of how fast and/or involved the transition of the apps that people have enjoyed in Maemo for the last two iterations of that OS will be shifted over to MeeGo yet? We're just a quarter away and no real announcements have come forward - just a lot of banter based on intent.

the people holding the bitterness need to get off their arses and stand up for something they are proud of. if they ever bought a device and created an application they are involved.
Linus never complained about other people not doing the work for him.
He wrote the kernel himself.
Maemo should also stand up for itself.
begs what question? addresses what?

the shift to Qt effects a lot of people.
in some cases its a good benefit, but in others long term stable applications cannot and will not be replaced just by saying they will without going through serious growing pains all over again.
the apps exist, people want to use them.
they should be a part of the community meego distribution.
I don't think any specific metrics do exist beyond a strong community feeling.

I did a survey recently on twitter of #maemotop5 applications (which has now seemingly vanished from searching) but there were a great many favourite applications which were gtk based.

we can help it become more than intent.
talk about it, find out how to make it work.
give patches, try things out, go beyond the forum.
tell me why I am wrong and offer something else that will work.
for every gtk application we admire, show me a fully working qt application that replaces it or a qt app that can do.
shout
yell
do all of those things
you could find good metrics to run if you need

but please, don't sit and moan about lack of action.

Nice keynote. With a minimum of text replacements, you will be able to present it annually, as Meego2, Meego3, and Symbian10 are revealed to the eager audience of Nokia tablet users.

Cavalier attitudes are affordable as such when you're able to get a device, per year at developer discount prices. I wonder if the people in India and Hong Kong share that same, skewed view as "get off their arses".

Not relevant. That's software. Not hardware.

Continued lack of relevance.

Nokia has placed it to where it will have to stand by itself now. Even the death, dumb and blind can agree to that.

What will be the level of continued support for the prior devices? What will be the level of support for the upcoming devices?

With rapid 6 month releases, will they be on your current device or will it be every six months, a new device will have to be purchased? Or will it be a year later?

In simpler terms, to avoid further confusion; what will be supported going forward? Qt? Great. Why hadn't Qt been backported to Maemo 4.1? Laziness? Lack of demand? Who knows, but it wasn't (not 4.6 or higher). Will that happen again with Qt 5.x and the current (as of today) devices? Or will there be an effort from hereon to keep devices with some form of Qt parity since Nokia has so much in stake with Qt?

It needs to be asked not what's coming forward, Nokia sells that idea each and every day that their newest, upcoming will replace the existing new/hotness and yet they don't talk about contingency plans of support, which way the developers should migrate gracefully - it's a huge ****ing pull from GTK to Qt - to the next platform of choice.

Indeed. Now, how will Nokia assist developers currently in that shift? And above all, how many current GTK apps are being transferred to Qt that are known... and what are their expected delivery dates? That's currently unknown. Address that.

I don't see any immediate benefits. I remember the days of going from ANSI C to Visual C. I remember going from Visual Basic to Microsoft .NET. And I remember going from AS1 to AS2 to AS3... the benefits were never immediate, nor the best products immediately available. But I have to hand it to Microsoft and Macromedia/Adobe... they let us know how to translate, transfer, migrate and what was coming down the pipe in a much better method than Nokia seems to be currently doing.

I see no list. Link me to it, please. Not vendors, not planned. But dates and deliverables. I'm sure you understand the difference.

And if a person lacks faith in the community as you see fit to have invested your faith/feeling, then what else do you suppose that a person that might be a bit more logic based in their faith investments do?

Via Twitter, you will gather fans of the platform that are like minded as you. It's inevitable. A bit more scientific and broader scope of varying degrees of faith and community participation would gather more attention; be more accurate imho.

For example. If I were to ask a bunch of Chevrolet Corvette owners while at a Chevrolet Corvette club gathering about how they feel about their Chevrolet Corvette cars... I'll get an amazingly biased set of answers now wouldn't I?

So... let's see. If I were to ask via Twitter, with the #MaemoTop5 hash tag, I'm quite sure I will get a biased answer for the much smaller in scale and market Maemo products when MeeGo is supposed to be a mass marketed device. To make the prior analogy fair, I'd ask people about Chevrolet Corvettes at an (all) auto show. To make your use of Twitter more ranged, I'd suggest asking all mobile device owners what their #Top5 would be.

You will get much more different, and to some that are after a better consumer device... more relevant answers. Savvy?

Oh please. I'm not complaining about lack of action. I'm asking, and do not misquote this... what is Nokia's plan of attack for the future?

Address the past bitterness by avoiding the total lack of communication as before by presenting you have something new, shiny but like Maemo... don't know how to capitalize on it properly.

Your address... it's forward thinking. Sad part, it's based on faith that isn't easily considered the one way forward for Nokia. It is a look at "might be", not "what will be". That's where I feel as if Nokia needs to address more clearly.

gerbick,
lets just make somethings clear:

GTK exists on Linux systems that I install on systems now.
Apps written in GTK can work on Windows Linux and Mac and on our Nokia tablets
They take some work to get the ports working on different systems.
GTK was initially created as the Gimp toolkit.
There are a set of extension libraries which make creating handheld applications simpler - the Hildon libraries (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hildon)

There are a wealth of applications available to us with this toolkit and associated libraries if we get them into Meego.

I want the many *community* applications to become available, if we gain additional ones along the way then that is a bonus.
I am not aiming to replicate or continue the entire Fremantle OS, that would be foolhardy.

In the past in Mer, stskeeps had a reasonable set of GTK and Hildon compatibility whereby we could see applications developed in the community available on another OS.

This endeavour is what I think is achievable in Meego.

However officially supported they are (by the Gnome foundation or other) is a matter for others to discuss, I just want to get the ball rolling.

@lcuk - What, exactly, is so bad about Fremantle that you seem to feel it a foolhardy endeavor to continue? Really, I'm curious?

In that one sentence you have pretty much summed up exactly why the bitterness exists. You aggrandize Maemo in your first post, then you call it a dead end. Why is there such an eagerness to drop it?

I am relatively new to Maemo, I am not new to programming. I like Maemo, I ~might~ like MeeGo, but if I have to encounter such rhetoric as this, I may well just take my skillset elsewhere.

To keep making things clearer... GTK has been pushed aside in favor of Qt by Nokia.

My concern about what GTK is and isn't starts and stops there. It's no longer the "it" framework for development within Maemo nor MeeGo. My question that you're overlooking repeatedly is this: Where is the list of apps out of your top 5 or otherwise that will be translated from GTK to Qt and their deliverable dates?

No more need for a deflection into a history that I already know. I'm asking for what I do not know - what are the future deliverables, by whom and when?

I am not talking about reproducing Fremantle. I'm not talking about Mer. I'm talking about existing GTK based apps being remade in Qt and when. Not a history of Linux - which is way unnecessary, I've been a Linux user since Slackware 3 or 4 (mid-90's if you're uninitiated) - nor anything else that you've mentioned above.

Address those things. Address what is coming and when. Not hearsay, not rumors, not faith-based conjecture.

Talk about how MeeGo will inherit the prior known GTK apps and how they will be made available... at a certain time in the future.

Or do not.