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2011-02-24
, 17:38
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Posts: 1,397 |
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Joined on Nov 2009
@ Dublin, Ireland
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#12
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Originally Posted by e-yes
The only problem with apt in Maemo is that it doesn't download diff updates. I don't know it it's just a matter of server configuration.
Application/package manager is built-in feature in Android.
You can install .apk event without internet connection established. It's similar to "dpkg -i whatever.deb" ("adb install whatever.apk" in Android). But Android doesn't download/store huge indexes. May be Market is some sort of frontend... nevermind... it's better than load tons of (almost) useless data.
Debian is actually using this feature and an apt-get update only fetches a few kb.
Last edited by ivgalvez; 2011-02-24 at 17:49.
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2011-02-24
, 23:36
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Posts: 4,672 |
Thanked: 5,455 times |
Joined on Jul 2008
@ Springfield, MA, USA
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#13
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Originally Posted by e-yes
heheh... no.
Application/package manager is built-in feature in Android.
You can install .apk event without internet connection established. It's similar to "dpkg -i whatever.deb" ("adb install whatever.apk" in Android). But Android doesn't download/store huge indexes. May be Market is some sort of frontend... nevermind... it's better than load tons of (almost) useless data.
deb packages do a tad more than apk's.
__________________
Nokia's slogan shouldn't be the pedo-palmgrabbing image with the slogan, "Connecting People"... It should be one hand open pleadingly with another hand giving the middle finger and the more apt slogan, "Potential Unrealized." --DR
Nokia's slogan shouldn't be the pedo-palmgrabbing image with the slogan, "Connecting People"... It should be one hand open pleadingly with another hand giving the middle finger and the more apt slogan, "Potential Unrealized." --DR
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2011-02-25
, 09:37
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Posts: 549 |
Thanked: 299 times |
Joined on Jun 2010
@ Australian in the Philippines
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#14
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Originally Posted by e-yes
I think you don't quite understand the current definition of a package manager. These days if you can't download applications from a repository and install them generally with a single action, minimally on the command line, then you don't have a package manager.
Application/package manager is built-in feature in Android.
You can install .apk event without internet connection established. It's similar to "dpkg -i whatever.deb" ("adb install whatever.apk" in Android). But Android doesn't download/store huge indexes. May be Market is some sort of frontend... nevermind... it's better than load tons of (almost) useless data.
Android is not capable of doing:
aptitude search <whatever>
aptitude install <whatever>
If someone were to include that particular ability in Android you'd end up with the same amount of overhead as every other real package manager out there. "adb install whatever.apk" is roughly analogous to C:\setup.exe in a command box on Windows.
Prior to being able to do your "adb install whatever" you will have spent probably more time searching for the application through obscure websites, and then saving it to your device than if you just used a package manager to do the hard work for you.
Last edited by dchky; 2011-02-25 at 09:40.
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2011-02-25
, 19:32
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Posts: 4,672 |
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Joined on Jul 2008
@ Springfield, MA, USA
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#15
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Originally Posted by dchky
Erm.. ok, I know you meant well but you seem to misunderstand it a bit. You CAN search the market's entire repository (whether it's a CLI or a GUI hardly matters when it comes to the basic operation). It can also, clearly, install.
I think you don't quite understand the current definition of a package manager. These days if you can't download applications from a repository and install them generally with a single action, minimally on the command line, then you don't have a package manager.
Android is not capable of doing:
aptitude search <whatever>
aptitude install <whatever>
If someone were to include that particular ability in Android you'd end up with the same amount of overhead as every other real package manager out there. "adb install whatever.apk" is roughly analogous to C:\setup.exe in a command box on Windows.
Prior to being able to do your "adb install whatever" you will have spent probably more time searching for the application through obscure websites, and then saving it to your device than if you just used a package manager to do the hard work for you.
The difference between the Android Market and a package manager is that Android Market isn't DOING very much more than downloading an "apk" file and placing it into a specific install location and then tracking that that download had been made no that device. The apk isn't unzipped, processed or anything. The apk is loaded and run the same way any zipped up "jar" file in Java is loaded and run. A Debian package manager has to download, decompress, examine and process a package in addition to placing the decompressed files into their appropriate locations relative to the root. Processing the package includes running any dependency checks, pre-deploy scripts, post-deploy scripts and so on.
There's clearly far more to a package manager than downloading and dropping a file. The advantage of the Android Market is that it generally "just works" in a sandbox riddled virtual machine environment like Android. The advantage of Debian package management is that it can work "outside the box" and perform operations ANYWHERE in the OS as root and even intelligently process OS config files and do ANY useful things that a package needs to do. The disadvantage to the Market is that it can only really do things to applications--never really touching the OS in other paths in the system (although there are tricks to get around that, mind you--but it's still difficult, generally). The disadvantage to Debian is that it requires a strict discipline to be followed and makes it more complicated and would make it less secure if a repository snuck in.
__________________
Nokia's slogan shouldn't be the pedo-palmgrabbing image with the slogan, "Connecting People"... It should be one hand open pleadingly with another hand giving the middle finger and the more apt slogan, "Potential Unrealized." --DR
Nokia's slogan shouldn't be the pedo-palmgrabbing image with the slogan, "Connecting People"... It should be one hand open pleadingly with another hand giving the middle finger and the more apt slogan, "Potential Unrealized." --DR
| The Following User Says Thank You to danramos For This Useful Post: | ||
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2011-02-28
, 06:59
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Posts: 549 |
Thanked: 299 times |
Joined on Jun 2010
@ Australian in the Philippines
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#16
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Originally Posted by danramos
I guess for me, at basic levels of operation efficiency is by far one of the more important metrics for any system. This encompasses both GUI and CLI.
Erm.. ok, I know you meant well but you seem to misunderstand it a bit. You CAN search the market's entire repository (whether it's a CLI or a GUI hardly matters when it comes to the basic operation). It can also, clearly, install.
.apk files are very similar to zip files. They do get decompressed. This aspect is very similar to your regular .deb file, though like you say, a .deb file can be as simplistic as file extraction to a single directory or intricately complex, it's a choice. Choice is good.
Agree entirely on your last paragraph good sir.
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2011-03-03
, 11:39
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Posts: 194 |
Thanked: 1,019 times |
Joined on May 2010
@ Moscow, Russia
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#17
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Originally Posted by dchky
Heh.
I think you don't quite understand the current definition of a package manager. These days if you can't download applications from a repository and install them generally with a single action, minimally on the command line, then you don't have a package manager.
Android is not capable of doing:
aptitude search <whatever>
aptitude install <whatever>
If someone were to include that particular ability in Android you'd end up with the same amount of overhead as every other real package manager out there. "adb install whatever.apk" is roughly analogous to C:\setup.exe in a command box on Windows.
Prior to being able to do your "adb install whatever" you will have spent probably more time searching for the application through obscure websites, and then saving it to your device than if you just used a package manager to do the hard work for you.
RTFM:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debian (look what's package manager. it's dpkg, it can't help you to search for smth). What you really use for searching - is not _package_manager_ itself.
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2011-03-03
, 15:42
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Posts: 4,672 |
Thanked: 5,455 times |
Joined on Jul 2008
@ Springfield, MA, USA
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#18
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Originally Posted by e-yes
Since you invoked R.T.F.M.:
Heh.
RTFM:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debian (look what's package manager. it's dpkg, it can't help you to search for smth). What you really use for searching - is not _package_manager_ itself.
You're being myopic and therefore technically erring in your attempt to correct his definition. You're effectively focusing on the core of the package management system (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dpkg) but excluding the front-end of said package management system (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aptitude_%28software%29).
Please begone with you and join another discussion to which you might hopefully participate more constructively.
__________________
Nokia's slogan shouldn't be the pedo-palmgrabbing image with the slogan, "Connecting People"... It should be one hand open pleadingly with another hand giving the middle finger and the more apt slogan, "Potential Unrealized." --DR
Nokia's slogan shouldn't be the pedo-palmgrabbing image with the slogan, "Connecting People"... It should be one hand open pleadingly with another hand giving the middle finger and the more apt slogan, "Potential Unrealized." --DR
Last edited by danramos; 2011-03-03 at 15:46. Reason: Added smiley for effect -ting!-
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2011-03-03
, 21:34
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Posts: 194 |
Thanked: 1,019 times |
Joined on May 2010
@ Moscow, Russia
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#19
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Market is front-end too. It can't search in offline, but who cares... Android is reach for applications, indexes should be too huge.
Yea. I make deb-packages (and get paid for it; it's part of my work).
Do you know there're some deb-based Linux distros with only dpkg installed (embedded systems)? What's your point - they do have package management or not?
>Please begone with you and join another discussion to which you might hopefully participate more constructively.
And I'm working with Android a lot too. It's better (for me) discuss with someone who know _both_ systems, not just his own swamp.
Last edited by e-yes; 2011-03-03 at 21:39.
Yea. I make deb-packages (and get paid for it; it's part of my work).
Do you know there're some deb-based Linux distros with only dpkg installed (embedded systems)? What's your point - they do have package management or not?
>Please begone with you and join another discussion to which you might hopefully participate more constructively.
And I'm working with Android a lot too. It's better (for me) discuss with someone who know _both_ systems, not just his own swamp.
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Last edited by e-yes; 2011-03-03 at 21:39.
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2011-03-03
, 23:34
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Posts: 4,672 |
Thanked: 5,455 times |
Joined on Jul 2008
@ Springfield, MA, USA
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#20
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Originally Posted by e-yes
And that doesn't address the fact that aptitude CAN search repositories and is PART of package management. Score.
Market is front-end too. It can't search in offline, but who cares... Android is reach for applications, indexes should be too huge.
Yea. I make deb-packages (and get paid for it; it's part of my work).
Do you know there're some deb-based Linux distros with only dpkg installed (embedded systems)? What's your point - they do have package management or not?
Originally Posted by e-yes
Well played. Well played.
>Please begone with you and join another discussion to which you might hopefully participate more constructively.
And I'm working with Android a lot too. It's better (for me) discuss with someone who know _both_ systems, not just his own swamp.
__________________
Nokia's slogan shouldn't be the pedo-palmgrabbing image with the slogan, "Connecting People"... It should be one hand open pleadingly with another hand giving the middle finger and the more apt slogan, "Potential Unrealized." --DR
Nokia's slogan shouldn't be the pedo-palmgrabbing image with the slogan, "Connecting People"... It should be one hand open pleadingly with another hand giving the middle finger and the more apt slogan, "Potential Unrealized." --DR
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You can install .apk event without internet connection established. It's similar to "dpkg -i whatever.deb" ("adb install whatever.apk" in Android). But Android doesn't download/store huge indexes. May be Market is some sort of frontend... nevermind... it's better than load tons of (almost) useless data.
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