I created a JavaScript clock using code from this site: http://www.java-scripts.net/javascri...al-Clock.phtml

It just shows a digital clock in the web browser. Nothing more.

I understand what you're getting at, but I'm just trying to point out the conflicting message that is prevalent on this board:

- "I need to open Word documents" -- "Well you can't, it's a CONSUMER DEVICE!"

- "But my Palm could do it" -- "Well, you can install AbiWord, but it only kind of works. Here's the repository." -- "What's a repository?"

- "I think it would be great if there was a big clock application" -- "Well, simply install scratchbox, the rootstrap & toolchain, gcc, put your device into red pill mode, and get writing code!"

All I'm trying to say is: either it's a consumer device, or you have to break out the compiler or dive into dependency hell if you want a piece of functionality on par with an $10 alarm clock. You can't have it both ways.

Obviously, it's a chicken and egg problem -- people can't just "install" a big clock app if there isn't one to install.

But the people on both sides of this argument both want the same thing: For the N800 to be the best possible device it can be, and to sell well enough that it's viable for Nokia to continue developing it.

You hardcore Linux guys must understand that you might as well be speaking Martian when you start talking about repositories and firmware and xterms to Joe Sixpack who just bought a cool looking internet device at CompUSA.

If I'm out at the store comparing handheld devices, and one has a full screen clock I can just download and install, and the other product has people telling me to install Python and get cracking -- well, which do you think sounds more appealing to the average CONSUMER?

Assuming you want people to support the N800, throw out a bone every once in a while rather than being so snarky about everything. I literally can't believe you posted that clock graphic. How rude is that?

Anyway, I'm hijacking the OP's thread here, so I'll stop. But seriously guys. If you want to see more N800 users, stop treating everyone who can't compile their own kernel like lepers.

Snarky, what a word....

I think you are being snarky, settle down big fella. Maybe you should have done more research/comparing into what you were buying before you purchased it (like you stated), instead of being all upset here.

I understand that some people in this forum can be annoying and less than helpful. This however does not negate the fact that you have some responsibility for your purchase and how you are going to use your device. When I bought a 770 there was only around 10 apps, but it grew over time, and shrunk and grew. One of the ways it grew is from people asking for apps, and others saying hey thats a good idea... Another way is for people to start trying to learn, and then end up porting an app for the first time themselves.

This is an awesome piece of hardware, with some cool functionality, perhaps a UMPC would have been a better option for you, but the price forced you into an IT?


Look, does the average consumer need to know how to add a repository, no, they can use it right out of the box. Should any n800 user (or child) be able to add repositories, yes. Cmon, if you are not willing to learn a little with any new device, you will not really be able to use it to its full potential.


Check out maemo.org and do some reading!!!!

I personally thought the clock picture, however un-useful, provided some humor. Sometime people like to jump in even with nothing constructive to say.

Snarky, my sister lives in New Zealand, they call it cheeky there, here in Michigan its called being a smart a55, go figure?

Sure we can.

The N800 does perform many tasks effectively out of the box. Yes, there are still quirks but for the most part it's complete.

The dividing line between consumer device and "wonderbox capable of doing so many things if the tools are just ported/developed" lies at different places for different users. That is exactly why the tablet can and does "have it both ways". It is very difficult to encapsulate the standard (or common) user experience because IMO it doesn't really exist-- yet. So it's very broad and subjective.

The N800 experience continues to evolve, too. It is still a novel platform. Someday it will reach a point of refinement to where the out-of-box experience is, say, 98% equivalent to current laptops and at that point the definitions won't be as hard to nail down.

I'm actually not upset about my purchase, believe it or not. But yes, there are things I would change if I were in charge. I only rant like this when something is just a couple inches short of true greatness. If I'm ranting about it, you know you're pretty close to something REALLY great.

For the most part, I like my N800 and it does a number of things quite well. I recently checked out a state-of-the-art Windows Mobile competitor (the HTC Advantage) and honestly the N800 runs rings around it, as long as you don't need PIM or MS Office functionality.

However, despite that, the N800 is not something I could unreservedly recommend to a friend or non-technical person at this time, for the reasons I keep mentioning.

My frustration stems from what I perceive as obvious and easily solved problems repeatedly overlooked by Nokia in favor of pie-in-the-sky like VoIP and WiMAX. I won't argue that those are not important things, and that someday, maybe 2 years from now, they'll be a big deal to more than 5% of the population, but right now they just don't have critical mass, and meanwhile REALLY IMPORTANT CONSUMER INTERNET THINGS that everyone uses (email client!) are languishing or (AIM) not included with the device at all. It just seems to me like priorities are out of whack.

I guess it would be far more effective for me to send this feedback to Nokia than keep yelling into the black hole, so I guess I will go do that now.

I apologize for any perceived snarkiness. I thought I was being fairly objective.

It IS a consumer device. I think you are confusing the definition of 'Consumer Device' with 'Peice of hardware that will do exactly what I want it to because it runs linux therefore I infer that the rules about things only doing what they are built to do dont apply to it'. The internet tablets do EXACTLY what Nokia advertises them as doing out of the box. When you power it up it is perfectly capable of connecting to networks and browsing the web and listening to internet radio and checking email and other such things. You would like it to do more, thans understandable, but you can't complain about getting your hands dirty if you want to modify the device to go above and beyond the call of duty.

You do bring up good points. It's a shame, but often the low-hanging fruit gets overlooked due to hyperfocus on big-ticket items. IMO the best way to approach something like development for the tablet is assemble teams for the big projects and allocate at least a few people to knocking out the easy stuff (like my alarm bugs, 1691 and 1693). With that approach, I've found that eventually the stuff in the middle is taken care of coincidentally or becomes moot.

No, no, that's what I'm arguing AGAINST!

Yes, it does web browsing and email out of the box. That's great!

I would say however that some of the built-in functionality could be dramatically improved (see below).

I'm trying to say that, in a situation like the OP's, in the situation where a third-party app is needed:

1. If it exists, the install process could be easier than having to add a repository, etc.

2. If someone is asking if a third-party app exists, and it's something like a BitTorrent client, then yes, you should expect to have to do some legwork. But for something like a full screen clock? That just doesn't seem like asking the world, and shouldn't draw retorts of "build it yourself!"

Well, sort of.

The box claims it can do IMAP email, which is one of the reasons I bought it. And I guess TECHNICALLY it does, but only in the loosest possible definition. Right now it:

1. Doesn't sync read/unread status with my IMAP server
2. Can't see any subfolders
3. Lumps all accounts into one inbox
4. Can't delete messages off the server, even when asked to

All of which I would consider to be pretty basic IMAP email functionality.

There is such a disparity in the level of quality between the web browser and the email, I actually think it's misleading for Nokia to claim that it supports IMAP.

Again, I DON'T HATE the N800. I just feel there is a lot of room for improvement and am hoping that someone who is actually in a position of influence at Nokia might be willing to consider what I'm saying.

IMO Nokia should be more precise in advertising the features and usability. Failing to do so is the biggest out-of-the-box shortcoming. Buyers should be completely informed.

That is because people with all levels of knowledge use this board. With scratchbox/rootstrap/toolchain knowledge from 0 to 100. I, for example, are definitely not more than a 20 on the scale of 0-100 on Linux knowledge, so i consider myself a consumer. I install what is available. If it's not available, i wait or forget about it.

I really didn't like that either. It's an insult to the initial poster and definitely not why this new IT user is on this board.

Ton.