Because I'm doing no such thing. I don't think Cybette was lying, that would require intent. She was using a figure of speech or was misinformed. It is a well know fact that a lot of pre-December 2nd orders were shipped much later - as in even two weeks later - than that post, so no, they were not being shipped right then and there.

Apparently the original pre-order order was lost due to some reason and orders shipped out in some other order and later than when public sale at DNA had already started, unlike was originally intended...

But you know. Instead of saying things like they did and offering vague apologies. What if they would have just told us what's going on? Most everyone can relate to the difficulties of a small smartup, when they are invited to take part. A few brutally honest updates by some central character, over the course of the process would have enabled that easily and with minimal effort. I can think of three, four great updates from the likes of Marc with real, solid info over that period making everyone a lot happier.

There probably was a database issue, as we later learned. I agree there probably was because we heard things to that extent later - why not tell it at the time. This was an early adopter facing start-up, they could well communicate things like that. Perhaps also explain to people what the average throughput of the operation is to give them some idea of how long or not it will take for them. Talk to them about the actual events behind the scenes. It is not very hard.

It would pay off handsomely. Now, do the same in a veiled or platitudical manner, it looses its charm and that's all Jolla has done in these two example cases. What if they would have just made a few brutally honest status updates. Early adopters have long memories, many would have loved to stay in that loop. In reverse, keeping people out of that loop lessens their loyalty and sense of community. Mistakes and problems are OK! But failure to communicate about them transparently makes them bigger.

That is my opinion.

What on Earth are you talking about. Apparently trying to reduce my suggestions into something comical. No, in my mind I assume it went something like this:

1) All the Jolla phones were delivered to Finland already November(ish). So indeed in that sense the phones were piled up before it all started. Some of these were earmarked for DNA to be launched for sales well before Christmas, but after shipping of pre-orders. These were sitting at a warehouse.

2) Logistics/sales people at Jolla probably were scrambling to get the order lists in check for the fulfillment/delivery people. There were some issues with this, causing delays so that the deliveries started much later than planned. Also the pre-order order was lost, causing further relative delays to some customers.

3) The fulfillment/delivery was probably outsourced to some company, although perhaps there was internal packaging efforts etc. going on. There was limited throughput on this end, which together with the delays in 2) meant deliveries for many, even first rounders, came only after the public sale at DNA had started.

4) I doubt Marc was doing deliveries, but I also don't think he was sipping champagne either. Most people at the Jolla office were probably doing their regular tasks, unless involved in 1), 2) or 3).

Now, what is missing is proper communications to the customers. So in that sense the people in group 4) should have been talking to people 1), 2) and 3) - and I am confident they were talking to them - but also talked more to the customers e.g. by making some timely, brutally honest updates to the community that was counting on them. It would have been beneficial to both Jolla and the community.

Is my point now clear?

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/the-fallacy-fallacy

please stick to arguments, facts or opinions.

How about irrelevant GIFs or JPGs?

This discussion reminds me of this thread way back. It's a good read as it overlaps with the topic in this thread too.

Well first of all let's make very clear there is no SIM card holder problem! This is not denying or shoving under the carpet and I will explain why. Also I really wonder what you need or why you would need the minute details. The only cringeworthy thing in the thread you pointed at is ZoG's behaviour.

Also getting into detail about this gets most likely in the murky legal waters of ODM agreements, NDA's and what not... Not to mention the possibility of this being turned into "Jolla confirms/admits enormous flaw! OMG!" But basically as an intelligent being you could probably already have figured out what it is. But anyway.

So somehow a very small batch of phones got shipped with a faulty SIM holder. This kind of thing can happen with any product, and is actually very common in the electronics industry. Especially when production gets ramped up for the first time on a new product. First batches always have a few more issues. Well that goes for everything, also cars, fridges, etc... Big manufacturers actually adjust their production and QA based on this type of warranty cases. The exact reasons why this happened I can probably not legally expose, nor am I sure that what I heard is correct. And I maybe have already said too much, I really hope it is not the case (Btw even CTO's have to respect NDA's unlike you stated) Also this is only what I understood of the problem, I was not involved into the details of this, so honestly I am not even the best person to say anything about this. Also not being directly involved is why some things go unanswered since the person who knows might not see the question, and the person who sees it might not know enough to give a valid answer.

Also comparing it to a Toyota recall is wrong. A recall is for a widespread known issue. This was/is just a small set of highly publicized warranty cases. Which is why it took so long to identify and find the cause. We had to wait to get one of those few problematic devices, test it, go to the odm, have the odm test a faulty device, etc... all that takes time.

IMHO saying that we confirmed the issue, found the cause and ask to send in the device for warranty repair is more than enough. Why you think we should need to give you the minute details is beyond me. Unless you have the equipment to fix everything yourself? This said I have a hard time still grasping what you exactly want.

And for clarity. There is (to my understanding) no and never has been a SIM card holder problem. Of course I am sure some paranoiac/troll is going to call this a denial...

There was indeed a mistake made back then. And I personally yelled at a few people that we were doing the wrong thing back then. But then again I hope we learned from it. Aren't we allowed to make mistakes? It is really hard to do engineering, debugging, QA, customer care and customer relationships all at once. We are people and there are things we are better at than others. And things we have done before and haven't done before. Most of us are engineers and never had to do PR. So that is a new world to us.

And before you say I avoided the fk_lx case. As said earlier I do not want to get involved into that mess.

Of course everyone is allowed to make mistakes. Problem is that Jolla usually compulsively hides them under the carpet and rarely ever apologizes. Read about the Enron analogy.

If the simcard holder problem was affecting some batch of devices then there was simcard holder problem, you cannot deny this, even if most of devices (but we actually don't know how much) haven't been affected. With cars it's also not that a problem affects all models or all batches of them.

PS. Regarding poll, it's funny that Jolla employees like Philippe also take part in it. Of course they will vote that in Jolla everything is ok and Jolla is transparent. It's not transparent, till this day we haven't heard why Thomas Perl was trying to exclude someone from Jolla community members event and why he was preventing a community member from contributing to Python support in Sailfish and discriminating a person, cutting him from areas he monopolized. Sad truth is that the reasons for his actions were purely personal and it's completely not professional to pull private prejudices to company or company related activities area.

I think some people are making way too much out of the pre-order and initial shipment issues. If people go back to the ordering process at the end of November, they were told "Order before December 2nd and you'll get your phone in December". That was the promise and for the vast majority that is what happened.

Yes there was a big gap in the middle when people didn't seem to get any and yes DNA had them in store before some pre-orders shipped. But ultimately, they shipped.

Obviously something went wrong in that process but really, cut them some slack - 1st product, new processes, new Magento based store (not the most reliable IME), pre-Xmas with overworked staff and international postal services. They seemed to have worked like mad to get back on track.

Jolla's communication was maybe too transparent. They perhaps should have just kept to their " in December" promise when asked and next time no sequential order numbers ;-)

Or maybe I'm just way more patient?