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andreas1 is offline andreas1
2014-12-17 , 11:59
Posts: 197 | Thanked: 65 times | Joined on Jul 2011
#191
Originally Posted by aegis View Post
Surely that's up to Whatsapp to fix, not Jolla?
Andro Wadap itself works perfectly but Jolla makes the UX not so good by
- not allowing the notifications on lockscreen
- not integrating the notifications to the system-wide "alarm"-system
- making it work so that app has to be open in a window all-the-time, not in the background fully -> thus you are online, but this is not the way intended.

Just to name few. If those wouldnt be accurate, my apologies, anyway thats how i remember.
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Last edited by andreas1; 2014-12-17 at 12:04.
 
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pycage is offline pycage
2014-12-17 , 12:00
Posts: 3,404 | Thanked: 4,474 times | Joined on Oct 2005 @ Germany
#192
Originally Posted by pichlo View Post
On the other hand, opening the source completely and inviting the community to contribute would render Jolla the company obsolete. They need some kind of "job security"
Given that Mer, the OS Sailfish is based on, is 100% open source, where are the contributions from the whining community?
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w00t is offline w00t
2014-12-17 , 12:17
Posts: 1,055 | Thanked: 4,107 times | Joined on Oct 2009 @ Norway
#193
Originally Posted by pycage View Post
Given that Mer, the OS Sailfish is based on, is 100% open source, where are the contributions from the whining community?
I don't think that's an entirely fair comment to make.

For one, there have been plenty of contributions along the way (look at the work the guys at Ispirata did to update a lot of packages, get gcc4.8 in shape, etc).

For another, the developer story for contributing changes to any of this stuff is way too convoluted (source spread over several locations, good luck finding which one to use, and how to build it, etc), and documentation is basically nonexistent outside of the heads of the people who have been working on it for a long time. Plus a few pieces (like SFOS platform SDK images) are internal only, which are kind of annoying.

I'd really like to see some focus on making 'getting started' on platform hacking a lot easier and more accessible.
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Dave999 is offline Dave999
2014-12-17 , 13:21
Posts: 7,075 | Thanked: 9,073 times | Joined on Oct 2009 @ Moon! It's not the East or the West side... it's the Dark Side
#194
Hey woot welcome back. Do you care to explain how these memory issues are related to upgrade of Qt version?
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MartinK is offline MartinK
2014-12-17 , 13:47
Posts: 1,548 | Thanked: 7,510 times | Joined on Apr 2010 @ Czech Republic
#195
Originally Posted by pichlo View Post
On the other hand, opening the source completely and inviting the community to contribute would render Jolla the company obsolete. They need some kind of "job security"
Well, not really - there are already quite many open source companies and they are doing just fine. The modus operandi is very different from a normal proprietary one but it is doable.

Having the full source code open does not make the primary author/contributor obsolete - they still have the trademarks, the needed infrastructure and the most know-how about the code. So they can much more easily do any modifications, add features and fix issues. Also the can set or very strongly influence the overall direction of the project.

So if wanted to fork the whole thing yourself, you would mostly need to invest a substantial amount of money to replicate the same capabilities the main contributor, invest more resources to keep your fork in sync with the main project and to keep any of your local modifications working. And on top of that you won't even be able to market the thing under the original known name.

So it is usually much easier (and cheaper) to cooperate in the frame of the original project - either to contribute the changes you need or pay for them to the original author, as they have the know-how to implement them for you in a reasonable time-frame. Or to pay for using the trademark, hardware adaptation, guaranteed support timeline and generally to assure that the project you are using will be there in the future.
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benny1967 is offline benny1967
2014-12-17 , 15:19
Posts: 3,790 | Thanked: 5,718 times | Joined on Mar 2006 @ Vienna, Austria
#196
Originally Posted by w00t View Post
For another, the developer story for contributing changes to any of this stuff is way too convoluted (source spread over several locations, good luck finding which one to use, and how to build it, etc), and documentation is basically nonexistent outside of the heads of the people who have been working on it for a long time. Plus a few pieces (like SFOS platform SDK images) are internal only, which are kind of annoying.

I'd really like to see some focus on making 'getting started' on platform hacking a lot easier and more accessible.
Getting started on platform hacking - but also on all kinds of contributions to the whole system... As a wise man once described here:

https://together.jolla.com/question/...#post-id-68154



Still my personal impression is (and I'd love to be corrected) that constructive input other that "feature request" here and "doesn't work sometimes" there is rare. Yes, it's difficult to get started, and it would be absurd to expect all of those who demand changes to actually contribute on a code level. But are there any users who contribute at all? Is there any benefit from having even parts of the code open?
 

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ZogG is offline ZogG
2014-12-17 , 18:22
Posts: 1,389 | Thanked: 1,857 times | Joined on Feb 2010 @ Israel
#197
Originally Posted by aegis View Post
And you know 100% that they've not been contacting major app developers to get them to port their apps?
All i can say that there are more apps at openrepos than in original store, so it's not lack of willing to develop devs, but not best opportunity/rules?
As well as contacting is one thing, helping and getting indie devs is other.

Originally Posted by aegis View Post
In this case it is. Whatsapp don't like 3rd party apps so it's absolutely in their domain, not Jolla or anyone else.

From my point of view I'm totally happy there's no Whatsapp as I really don't think proprietary IM clients are a good thing. I can't see how you can be clamouring for open source on one hand and a closed protocol owned by Facebook on the other. Calling Jolla hypocritical sounds very hollow.
Truely i was not talking about whatsapp specifically, i was talking about optimization, and with all my thoughts on Jolla, actually they did a great job on optimization, as android apps work better than on blackberry (at least for me), but the point is if something is not good, people point fingers on anything but not at Jolla.
it's good to be fan, but not to follow blindly and think sometimes.

Originally Posted by aegis View Post
Blatantly untrue. They use huge amounts of open source and push it upstream. If you mean 100% open source then you have a point, but a totally unreasonable one. Nobody does 100% open source and Jolla aren't claiming 100%.
They do use opensource and surely they push back to what they use(need). Same way as even Nvidia/MS or other company using Open source does.
They opened few things and i don't mind if even they do not open anything else, what bother me is they keep telling that they opensource and opensource friendly. All they need to opensource what was promised, to not talk about opensource if they do not open it. And if they ant to be open source friendly, they can start even with simple road map and public bug tracker (yeah we heard of soon for a year now)


Originally Posted by aegis View Post
Never had a problem so I've no idea what you mean.
A lot of people did, i barely use Jolla (only for candy crash) so all i had is few reboots and sim cards disconnects when i tried phone (that's why i barely use it first place :P ).
But you can read posts on TJC to understand it's not me just imaginanig things.

Originally Posted by aegis View Post
Agreed there though I did get a spare battery. ;-)
The problem that it takes a lot of noise and whinning and fights till something done.


I'll repeat myself:
The problem is that if there is something not good happening around Jolla, while TMO will bash apple/android/NAME_IT_ company if same will happen to them, but with Jolla people point fingers on anything but not at Jolla itself.
It's good to be fan, but not to follow blindly and people should look around and think sometimes.
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JulmaHerra is offline JulmaHerra
2014-12-17 , 18:49
Posts: 285 | Thanked: 1,900 times | Joined on Feb 2010
#198
Originally Posted by MartinK View Post
Well, not really - there are already quite many open source companies and they are doing just fine. The modus operandi is very different from a normal proprietary one but it is doable.
Yes, however they are not doing it in consumer market but in enterprise. Their way of selling support (in way which is sometimes hard to extinguish from standard licensing fees) suits that world but it's pretty hard to do it in consumer space and mobile.

Having the full source code open does not make the primary author/contributor obsolete - they still have the trademarks, the needed infrastructure and the most know-how about the code. So they can much more easily do any modifications, add features and fix issues. Also the can set or very strongly influence the overall direction of the project.
Company with very limited resources can easily be rendered obsolete by stronger parties who can basically take the project and ship products with enhanced closed source software bundled in. That's exactly what Google is doing with Android, now that it has become the "gold standard", more and more of their contribution is directed towards closed source parts which have significantly more features than their open source counterparts. It's very hard to see how company like Jolla could go fully Open Source and remain financially solvent.
 

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ZogG is offline ZogG
2014-12-17 , 18:57
Posts: 1,389 | Thanked: 1,857 times | Joined on Feb 2010 @ Israel
#199
Originally Posted by JulmaHerra View Post
Yes, however they are not doing it in consumer market but in enterprise. Their way of selling support (in way which is sometimes hard to extinguish from standard licensing fees) suits that world but it's pretty hard to do it in consumer space and mobile.
Tizen is OSS
One Plus One uses opensource cynamogen

Originally Posted by JulmaHerra View Post
Company with very limited resources can easily be rendered obsolete by stronger parties who can basically take the project and ship products with enhanced closed source software bundled in. That's exactly what Google is doing with Android, now that it has become the "gold standard", more and more of their contribution is directed towards closed source parts which have significantly more features than their open source counterparts. It's very hard to see how company like Jolla could go fully Open Source and remain financially solvent.
So again, if you go android way, what's your difference between android and why we'll need one more andoird?
Btw android has more open source AFAIk and there are fully opensource android flavours
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szopin is offline szopin
2014-12-17 , 19:03
Posts: 2,076 | Thanked: 3,268 times | Joined on Feb 2011
#200
oh boy, it's that time of the month again, woodworks and under bridges so empty right now
 

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