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daperl is offline daperl
2009-01-11 , 20:25
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#201
Originally Posted by benny1967 View Post
... and this example shows how much easier scrolling is with a d-pad when implemented properly. (especially when you take into account that scrolling with d-pad can be done one-handed, while i never got anything touch-related to work without using a second hand.)
Not only is it one handed, it's a simple rocking of my thumb. And to say that something is one handed is inaccurate. If I have to use my other hand, or my other hand's finger, nail, knuckle or whatever, it takes my whole other arm. You know, the one I was resting for when I roll on to my other side. Can you say, sloth?
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2009-01-11 , 20:28
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#202
Originally Posted by ragnar View Post
I would argue that the vast majority of the users do not really desire the D-pad (the sample size and correlation to a typical user in here isn't exactly optimal), providing they get an UI that is well optimized for touch. And that having to support the D-pad would make reaching that goal much harder.

That's basically why I'm arguing. Having it is not a free lunch. It may seem like it now, but that's only because of the current UI. It's not about just desiging a good HW design for one - or why not go the Pandora-route and two - d-pads. Requiring it makes things worse in many aspects.
I'd rather argue against something with benefit of solid, informative data.

Is there any good use-case data on this subject?
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2009-01-11 , 20:28
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#203
Originally Posted by ragnar View Post
I would consider the device broken if the touch screen stops working. It's not like the space shuttle where you should have backup systems for everything if one system stops working.
and why not?

on serious matters, the n810 design is nice having to slide out the keypad to get at a d-pad really isn't an issue.

having no real hardware keys of any kind (return to n800) would be worse than no dpad in my mind. the n97 looks nice and reasonable
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ragnar is offline ragnar
2009-01-11 , 20:30
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#204
Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
I'd rather argue against something with benefit of solid, informative data.

Is there any good use-case data on this subject?
... I don't really know what you mean by that.
 
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2009-01-11 , 20:31
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#205
Originally Posted by ragnar View Post
I would argue that the vast majority of the users do not really desire the D-pad (the sample size and correlation to a typical user in here isn't exactly optimal), providing they get an UI that is well optimized for touch. And that having to support the D-pad would make reaching that goal much.

And how do you actually know that?
 

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2009-01-11 , 20:34
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#206
Originally Posted by ragnar View Post
I would consider the device broken if the touch screen stops working. It's not like the space shuttle where you should have backup systems for everything if one system stops working.
ragnar, you completely missed my point, and I apologize if that was my fault. However, I think you may be so predisposed toward arguing against the d-pad (et al) and that is affecting your interpretation.

Anyway, I mean to say that inclusion of an auxiliary hardware input device can reduce the stress on the touchscreen. Case in point: one of mine is wearing out in a very specific area. That is due mainly to my mode of use. Eventually I expect that region to be less responsive (and I suspect it is already getting there) whereas the remainder of the screen will continue to be useful. Using a hardware solution could balance my usage to the point that wear-and-tear would be more evenly distributed across the touchscreen.

I cannot emphasize the highlighted portion enough. THAT will turn out to be the hallmark of best practice touchscreen UI design.
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allnameswereout is offline allnameswereout
2009-01-11 , 20:35
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#207
I've used devices which lie in the hand well with d-pad before such as gamepads. Yes, a d-pad lying good in the hand is indeed a powerful d-pad.

Originally Posted by benny1967 View Post
... and this example shows how much easier scrolling is with a d-pad when implemented properly. (especially when you take into account that scrolling with d-pad can be done one-handed, while i never got anything touch-related to work without using a second hand.)
Hmm, I'm not so sure about that.

For example it scrolls down, but not exactly one line. Lately, I've been using S60Browser with d-pad. I can't express how much I miss being able to touch and scroll around on the screen (and the screen is a little bit too small, too).

The Amazon Kindle doesn't use this either. The success of an application such as Liqbase for e-book reading is also telling that at least the device is usable without a d-pad. Touch screen based scrolling, when implemented properly, is much more powerful and logical than a d-pad. To compare, take something such as X terminal into account, a keypad (d-pad) is pretty useful but there you have everything fixed width, 1 up is one up, 1 to the right is one to the right. In a browser, its not as simple as that.

And without a d-pad I do see some complications. For example, I wonder how exactly I'd use my X terminal without a d-pad. Would require something like Fn key, or something touch based.

Mind you, this is about smooth scrolling using fingers (and/or stylus; that is a different issue).

For most people here, comments based on experience don't stem from the usage of one or two devices. It stems from a lifetime of experience with all kind of devices. From magnetrons to coffee machines. And, possible, several mobile devices. For me not 700/N800 because back then I was still a Sharp Zaurus user...
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2009-01-11 , 20:35
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#208
Originally Posted by ragnar View Post
... I don't really know what you mean by that.
Data versus opinion.
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sjgadsby is offline sjgadsby
2009-01-11 , 20:36
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#209
Originally Posted by daperl View Post
...all the n810 users that never owned a 770 or n800 don't know what it's like to have the d-pad on the outside.
Excellent. Let's limit participation in this discussion to those who can speak with the experience that comes from owning both an N810 and an earlier Internet Tablet model.
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2009-01-11 , 20:38
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#210
Originally Posted by sjgadsby View Post
Excellent. Let's limit participation in this discussion to those who can speak with the experience that comes from owning both an N810 and an earlier Internet Tablet model.
Although I am reluctant myself to limit discussion that way, I apply more credence to the opinions of people who have lived in two or more worlds.
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