Would you miss the Council if it was gone? - Page 21 - maemo.org

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marktold	2010-08-12 , 06:42
Posts: 216 \| Thanked: 72 times \| Joined on Dec 2009 @ Switzerland	#201

Well I feel like there are many good brainstrom ideas that have not made it to 1.2 so I am more disapointed in Nokia for giving me the feeling the do not listen to the community at all.

Markus

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Peter@Maemo Marketing	2010-08-12 , 06:43
Posts: 179 \| Thanked: 1,679 times \| Joined on Nov 2008 @ Helsinki	#202

I put my vote in now. I would love the council to continue, also in the context of Meego. I, as head of MeeGo Marketing (note: that is not the same than creating consumer marketing for Nokia devices), I need dedicated people that can bring forward a consolidated view on crucial community issues, for example like the one regarding MyNokia subscription or the Python issue. We also need community representatives as spokespersons in events and to social media. I also want to continue to have the ability to know whom to talk to to plan things such as a product launch and events in advance. You might be surprised how much community council sometimes knows under confidentiality agreement. Reason being: we want to know what the potential feedback from the community might be and we want community facilitators to be online when things like a major announcement come around in order to facilitate the dialog within the community.

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	silvermountain	2010-08-12 , 07:06
	Posts: 1,359 \| Thanked: 717 times \| Joined on May 2009 @ ...standing right behind you...	#203

Originally Posted by Peter@Maemo Marketing

I also want to continue to have the ability to know whom to talk to to plan things such as a product launch and events in advance. You might be surprised how much community council sometimes knows under confidentiality agreement. Reason being: we want to know what the potential feedback from the community might be and we want community facilitators to be online when things like a major announcement come around in order to facilitate the dialog within the community.

a) Out of pure curiosity - how much did the Council know about the switch to MeeGo prior to the day it was announced?

b) What is your response to the continued frustration that has been aired in many threads, including this one, about Nokia stonewalling the Council/Community and being less than responsive when being reached out to?

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Last edited by silvermountain; 2010-08-12 at 07:18.

Peter@Maemo Marketing	2010-08-12 , 07:27
Posts: 179 \| Thanked: 1,679 times \| Joined on Nov 2008 @ Helsinki	#204

Originally Posted by silvermountain

a) Out of pure curiosity - how much did the Council know about the switch to MeeGo prior to the day it was announced?

b) What is your response to the continued frustration that has been aired in many threads, including this one, about Nokia stonewalling the Council/Community and being less than responsive when being reached out to?

Maybe, this is the wrong thread for this question but to answer your questions:

a) Not sure what details we disclosed on the Maemo/Moblin merger. A bit more complex legally because of the bilateral NDA between Nokia/Intel. It's easy to decide what to share when it's only about your own stuff i.e. Maemo. Quim Gil did the briefing as far as I remember. I remember only what we shared before N900 launch and Maemo 5 beta SDK launch when it became evident that they Maemo 5 is not compatible with Maemo 4. Community Council did even have devices ahead of launch, reviewed them and wrote a community-view that was published on maemo.org at the time of N900 launch.

b) I disagree with your statement and, therefore, I cannot answer your question either, sorry. With the growing base of consumers using N900s and also the platform community growing, you might get the impression that we are less responsive, while we aren't considering that there is significantly more threads and posts ongoing (check the stats from Reggie). I'm hiring more folks to provide more feedback to the community. Now, I'm hiring an open source advocate dedicated for Europe while Quim took up the fight in the Valley.

Last edited by Peter@Maemo Marketing; 2010-08-12 at 07:36.

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	silvermountain	2010-08-12 , 07:41
	Posts: 1,359 \| Thanked: 717 times \| Joined on May 2009 @ ...standing right behind you...	#205

Originally Posted by Peter@Maemo Marketing

Maybe, this is the wrong thread for this question but to answer your questions:

Considering that you used examples of a) having communication with the Council and b) the ability to pre-announce changes/events to the Council in your post I felt it was apt to ask the follow-up questions.

Originally Posted by Peter@Maemo Marketing

b) I disagree with your statement and, therefore, I cannot answer your question either, sorry.

Then I would strongly encourage you to read through some of the posts on this forum - even this thread. If it's a perception issue that Nokia is increasingly poor at communicating (this is apparently also a perception held by some Council members) then that becomes a valid issue and one I'd love to hear your thoughts on - regardless if you happen to believe that there is no actual issue.

It is honestly rather troubling if you really are so removed and disconnected from what the community at large has been expressing about your company's lack of communication.

That you choose to make a post about how you value the benefits in communication with the Council and then state that you don't see any issues here is, at least to me, rather telling of such a disconnect.

Last edited by silvermountain; 2010-08-12 at 07:45.

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Peter@Maemo Marketing	2010-08-12 , 07:58
Posts: 179 \| Thanked: 1,679 times \| Joined on Nov 2008 @ Helsinki	#206

Originally Posted by silvermountain

Considering that you used examples of a) having communication with the Council and b) the ability to pre-announce changes/events to the Council in your post I felt it was apt to ask the follow-up questions.

Then I would strongly encourage you to read through some of the posts on this forum - even this thread. If it's a perception issue that Nokia is increasingly poor at communicating (this is apparently also a perception held by some Council members) then that becomes a valid issue and one I'd love to hear your thoughts on - regardless if you happen to believe that there is no actual issue.

It is honestly rather troubling if you really are so removed and disconnected from what the community at large has been expressing about your company's lack of communication.

That you choose to make a post about how you value the benefits in communication with the Council and then state that you don't see any issues here is, at least to me, rather telling of such a disconnect.

I simply do not agree with your statement of "stonewalling" (your way of putting it, not mine) and a change of responsiveness recently. The amount of engagement and resources involved in community dialogue has stayed the same and is growing. And, yes, we are not commenting every thread in this forum as this is neither pragmatic nor constructive as some requests are not exactly reasonable. Any feedback is appreciated, but there is a bandwidth restriction on how much feedback we can actually process. Therefore, it is essential to have the council that removes the element of individual feedback that might get lost in the overall noise. The council creates a consolidated view bringing forward issues that are crucial to the large majority of the community. Those are the first ones we address internally. Recent examples are Python and MyNokia subscription. And even if the community wants something does not mean always that we can change things but we consider the community as one stakeholder in the evolution of MeeGo and our MeeGo-based products. And the least, we can do, is give feedback on these consolidated views. If we haven't done so recently and the council feels that we are not listening, then I'm more than happy to work on getting back on track. Jaffa, texrat? Shoot.

Last edited by Peter@Maemo Marketing; 2010-08-12 at 08:05.

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baxyp	2010-08-12 , 08:53
Posts: 32 \| Thanked: 94 times \| Joined on Dec 2009 @ Pärnu, Estonia	#207

Is the issue with N900 video drivers (no vsync, no buffer swaps) something that community council can handle, I mean to get the wontfix resolutions removed from relevant bugs in bugs.maemo.org?

	Stskeeps	2010-08-12 , 09:06
	Posts: 1,671 \| Thanked: 11,478 times \| Joined on Jun 2008 @ Warsaw, Poland	#208

Originally Posted by baxyp

Is the issue with N900 video drivers (no vsync, no buffer swaps) something that community council can handle, I mean to get the wontfix resolutions removed from relevant bugs in bugs.maemo.org?

It's WONTFIX for Maemo5/N900. I've had up to date GFX drivers up and running on MeeGo on N900 with 2.6.35. If anyone wants to dare backport that, they can do so when we have the thing integrated.

We have to upstream some DSS2 patches in order to properly integrate it, but things work and it's a matter of time before we integrate it fully.

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anthonie	2010-08-12 , 09:07
Posts: 1,048 \| Thanked: 1,127 times \| Joined on Jan 2010 @ Amsterdam	#209

Personally I don´t care about Meego. What is important for me though is whether or not the maemo community will be able to further develop maemo5 and how Nokia will address issues with closed source components, vital for developers to solve existing problems with the n900. I am and probably will be happy happy in the future with my n900 but will admit that issues addressed by qwerty12, just to name 1, do raise some eyebrows, not to say worries. Closed components withhold the community from fixing things that should´ve been taken care off by Nokia in the first place. Now, I can live with the fact that that has not been done, but I think Nokia could make a lot of people happy by addressing these issues. They have been communicated over and over but from here, little seems to have been done to take away peoples worries. Is that something we may expect to see changed in the near future?

	Stskeeps	2010-08-12 , 09:11
	Posts: 1,671 \| Thanked: 11,478 times \| Joined on Jun 2008 @ Warsaw, Poland	#210

Originally Posted by anthonie

Closed components withhold the community from fixing things that should´ve been taken care off by Nokia in the first place.

You're making a rather interesting statement here. You're assuming community would actually get off their collective asses and fix things and be skilled and capable of doing this if it was open source.

The amount of people skilled in debugging wifi/bt firmware, high-end graphics drivers and battery management is a very low number. Even with applications, GTK+ developers are in high demand. That, combined with their time and will to do anything makes things difficult.

Am I a cynic when I'm wondering if the only way proper productized open source functions in the real world is when people are paid to do it? (or liberated to work on it, same thing).

Last edited by Stskeeps; 2010-08-12 at 09:16.