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aspidites is offline aspidites
2010-01-02 , 01:50
Posts: 402 | Thanked: 229 times | Joined on Nov 2009 @ Missouri, USA
#211
Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles View Post
What's stopping you? The sources are available, build them and install them.
I suppose you missed the part where I said I was waiting for telephony to be available in Mer?

Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles View Post
Um, what?
Ofono is sponsored by Nokia. My point is that if the telephony technologies used in the n900 (also sponsored by Nokia) were open, there would be no need for this...

Originally Posted by attila77 View Post
Except none of those systems are meant for Linux newbies, nor do they (have to) provide the service level more mainstream distros do. That's also the reason why that slew almost totally excludes anything that needs to provide a reliable, universal, certifiable support level. On the other hand, I fully expect Arch or Gentoo folks to be able to solve any problems they might run into on their own. But then, it's (with a stretch) like running Debian unstable. Yeah, it breaks occasionally, you fix it and carry on. But 'normal people', companies, etc, need a solid spot to base on, and that base is provided exactly on those 'big' releases, which are GUARANTEED to have various certificates, be provided with security fixes, paid support, whatnot.
My point wasn't about target audiences, but rather at the availability of such release schemes.

Let's not get anecdotal.
I was only meaning to say that such a release scheme, if handled correctly, doesn't automatically make a platform unstable. Again using Arch as a point of reference, they have separate repositories (as I imagine most distros have, including Maemo) for software that is newer, but might very well break your system.

It's not just Debian. Releases are an even bigger deal in the RedHat (and derivatives) world, SuSE is also heavily release based, really, all mainstream distros do that (no offense to Gentoo, Arch or any of the more hacker oriented distros - they are just aiming at a different target audience).
But Maemo is based on debian (and more specifically ubuntu if I recall correctly), which is why I chose them. Where as I quoted something I believed to be over-generalized, I will concede that perhaps my reply was over-specified.

I agree they SHOULD be more transparent in the development efforts (not sure if I would use the word release, a lot of people have difficulty understanding that something NOT meant for the general public is called a release). It would be much better if fixes would be, if nothing else, at least available through git (so it's absolutely clear it's meant for developers and would mean better early feedback from people who KNOW what they are dealing with).
Precisely the point I, and I believe others were trying to make. I just think it's absurd for a company to use things like "there are legal issues to consider", and "we don't want to release buggy code" as a crutch when others are doing so given the same constraints

They already have EULA agreements and separate and a separate repository for the proprietary apps, so what exactly is stopping them from releasing the other components early?

If they need certain versions of software for their components to work, then they can use the dependency mechanism like all other applications (eg depends python >=2.6.4 < 3.0)

Note: I know that Nokia has made no official announcements as to why there has yet to be a release, I'm just speaking hypothetically.

Note 2: Since there have never been any official announcements about a release and any discussion of a new firmware as generally been speculation, I'm not mad at all. Really, I just like discussing the possibilities or lack there of, and the rational surrounding them.

edit:
fixed quotes
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Last edited by aspidites; 2010-01-02 at 02:08.
 
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GeneralAntilles is offline GeneralAntilles
2010-01-02 , 05:02
Posts: 5,478 | Thanked: 5,222 times | Joined on Jan 2006 @ St. Petersburg, FL
#212
Originally Posted by aspidites View Post
I suppose you missed the part where I said I was waiting for telephony to be available in Mer?
Erm, then why do you want to have individual package updates available.

Originally Posted by aspidites View Post
Ofono is sponsored by Nokia. My point is that if the telephony technologies used in the n900 (also sponsored by Nokia) were open, there would be no need for this...
Yes, I know what oFono is, but you do realize the reason it's not included in Fremantle is that it's nowhere near ready, right?
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aspidites is offline aspidites
2010-01-02 , 07:17
Posts: 402 | Thanked: 229 times | Joined on Nov 2009 @ Missouri, USA
#213
GeneralAntilles, you are quoting things out of context.

Mer and Ofono arent ready so it makes no sense in my situatuon to install it just yet. I know it isnt ready because others have said so. At thw same time, there is nothing stopping me from giving it a try.

Compare that, if you would, with the current firmware situation: there is confirmation that it resolves numerous issues, yet the general public (heck, even the more tech saavy not-so-general public) have no access to it, thus it is no longer my decision to make whether it is ready or not.

In short, its about choice and I dont particularly like having them taken away without good reason. IMHO Nokia hasnt provided a good enough one...not that I expect them to. I suppose I had higher hopes considering the direction Qt has been heading ever since Nokia bought the project.

BTW, you missed my point about ofono entirely...
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Last edited by aspidites; 2010-01-02 at 07:19.
 
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Dr. Drips is offline Dr. Drips
2010-01-02 , 11:44
Posts: 90 | Thanked: 33 times | Joined on Dec 2009 @ the netherlands
#214
there are people on twitter saying they can MMS.
 
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GeneralAntilles is offline GeneralAntilles
2010-01-02 , 15:45
Posts: 5,478 | Thanked: 5,222 times | Joined on Jan 2006 @ St. Petersburg, FL
#215
Yes, it's pretty clear I don't get your point, but I suspect it may have to do with so misconceptions on your part.

Originally Posted by aspidites View Post
Compare that, if you would, with the current firmware situation: there is confirmation that it resolves numerous issues, yet the general public (heck, even the more tech saavy not-so-general public) have no access to it, thus it is no longer my decision to make whether it is ready or not.
maemo.gitoreous.org. Download, compile, done.

Originally Posted by aspidites View Post
BTW, you missed my point about ofono entirely...
Quite obviously, perhaps you should do a more thorough job of explaining them in the future. . . .
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jcompagner is offline jcompagner
2010-01-03 , 00:19
Posts: 290 | Thanked: 165 times | Joined on Sep 2009
#216
Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles View Post
Yes, it's pretty clear I don't get your point, but I suspect it may have to do with so misconceptions on your part.



maemo.gitoreous.org. Download, compile, done.
interesting, just for my understanding
those projects and many upstream projects are pretty much the complete linux system (the os) itself?
What do we still "miss" then if we are speaking about fully open source? Some drivers?

Also modest is in garage, the same for microb
what about the media player?
 
floffe is offline floffe
2010-01-03 , 10:39
Posts: 287 | Thanked: 127 times | Joined on Oct 2009 @ Sweden
#217
From my understanding, the things that are still closed are the media player, phone system, and several other parts of the GUI.
 
jjx is offline jjx
2010-01-03 , 11:04
Posts: 474 | Thanked: 283 times | Joined on Oct 2009 @ Oxford, UK
#218
Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles View Post
maemo.gitoreous.org. Download,compile, done.
Cool, sounds easy, so if I do that I'll get the 3 USIM fix?

Seriously, if maemo.gitorious.org gets me that fix, I'll follow your instructions forthwith.

But I'm under the impression I won't find it there.

(Sadly, for the GPS problems, over on the bugtracker there still seems to be resistance to the idea that one might wish to use GPS when out of range of one's carrier's mobile signal; thus bug fix seems far away)
 
jjx is offline jjx
2010-01-03 , 11:05
Posts: 474 | Thanked: 283 times | Joined on Oct 2009 @ Oxford, UK
#219
Originally Posted by floffe View Post
From my understanding, the things that are still closed are the media player, phone system, and several other parts of the GUI.
The GPS seems quite opaque too.
 
floffe is offline floffe
2010-01-03 , 11:17
Posts: 287 | Thanked: 127 times | Joined on Oct 2009 @ Sweden
#220
Originally Posted by jjx View Post
Cool, sounds easy, so if I do that I'll get the 3 USIM fix?

Seriously, if maemo.gitorious.org gets me that fix, I'll follow your instructions forthwith.
I'm pretty sure not, since that's part of the phone functionality.
 
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