Jolla Tablet Refunds (latest developments) - Page 230 - maemo.org

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gerbick	2015-11-28 , 21:40
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Originally Posted by pichlo

If I continued pouring millions into a company and then saw the founders of said company spending my money on something else, I might also be slightly put out. Having said that, I agree with billranton: I find it hard to believe that the whole adventure thingy came out of the blue to them.

Well, here's where we differ; that's only if I'm reading what you're saying and I'll be honest, I might be very wrong.

I wouldn't consider an outreach program necessarily a bad thing at all, especially given how: A) there's a certain lack of native applications, B) there's a real lack of 3rd party support without invoking Android Support and C) the emerging markets like Asia, Russia, Africa and India are indeed using smartphones in a wholly different manner than a lot of Europe and the Americas. Those different patterns and use cases might give rise to the next "big thing" and might render the items A and B in the above list unnecessary.

So I'm not following how this is a bad thing. Jolla has done a lot on their own along with the community; but sometimes you have to encourage more people to use your platform. And that's never a bad thing.

Again, I might be reading what you're saying incorrectly. So any correction is encouraged.

	Copernicus	2015-11-28 , 22:00
	Posts: 1,986 \| Thanked: 7,698 times \| Joined on Dec 2010 @ Dayton, Ohio	#2292

Originally Posted by gerbick

So I'm not following how this is a bad thing. Jolla has done a lot on their own along with the community; but sometimes you have to encourage more people to use your platform. And that's never a bad thing.

Wait. What? I thought the Jolla Adventures thing was just about helping other startup companies in general; it doesn't have anything at all to do with Sailfish (or even cell phones), right?

NokiaFanatic	2015-11-28 , 22:43
Posts: 337 \| Thanked: 891 times \| Joined on Jul 2012 @ Royaume Uni.	#2293

Reading the above - it seems to me like the consensus of the forum is that there are no problems here. Jolla debt refinancing is only a temporary thing - it's clear that Sailfish is an amazing OS without any problems, so an investor would have to be braindead not to continue with it. Anyawy, the deal with the Indian giant Intex is just around the corner - just in time to put €10M into Jolla to save the day. Also, having a 0.00001% is apparently a great success too - any investor should be wetting their pants to take such huge market share.

gerbick	2015-11-28 , 22:50
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Originally Posted by Copernicus

Wait. What? I thought the Jolla Adventures thing was just about helping other startup companies in general; it doesn't have anything at all to do with Sailfish (or even cell phones), right?

Naw, an outreach program is one that fosters good ideas and helps them deliver on the Sailfish platform. Be it individual or small companies, but they'll need direction and Jolla was willing to offer that direction (to at least get them success on Sailfish). That's my read of it. It's not as much about funding whatever may come their way. It's to help those that need the assistance.

Originally Posted by NokiaFanatic

Reading the above - it seems to me like the consensus of the forum is that there are no problems here. Jolla debt refinancing is only a temporary thing - it's clear that Sailfish is an amazing OS without any problems, so an investor would have to be braindead not to continue with it. Anyawy, the deal with the Indian giant Intex is just around the corner - just in time to put €10M into Jolla to save the day. Also, having a 0.00001% is apparently a great success too - any investor should be wetting their pants to take such huge market share.

No, there's a lot of problems. And as it stands, in my humble opinion, an investor has a lot to gain from investing in Jolla, but only if they're able to understand that it's been done a certain way so far.

And that way isn't that it'll be immediately profitable but long-term, strides could be made. But from the foundation of Jolla to now, we're looking at 4 years of progress that's not really all that great of a leap in terms of sales or influence.

I hope that the great folks at Jolla survive this "death valley" and we're not seeing the death throes of Jolla. That would be a very sad thing...

	Copernicus	2015-11-28 , 23:39
	Posts: 1,986 \| Thanked: 7,698 times \| Joined on Dec 2010 @ Dayton, Ohio	#2295

Originally Posted by NokiaFanatic

Reading the above - it seems to me like the consensus of the forum is that there are no problems here. Jolla debt refinancing is only a temporary thing - it's clear that Sailfish is an amazing OS without any problems, so an investor would have to be braindead not to continue with it.

Hmm. Here's my read of it: Apple & Google currently own the mobile OS market. Microsoft, after failing to gain market share with Windows Phone, is (as usual) retrenching into their desktop OS and trying to spread it out onto mobile devices (which, I suspect, isn't going to be a winning solution either). So, if you're interested in an alternative mobile OS, what are your choices? You could start from scratch, spending many years and millions of dollars to come up with an alternative. You could go with Firefox OS, but the goals of that OS seem to be far more limited in scope than iOS or Android. You could wait (and wait (and wait)) for Ubuntu Touch to slowly, ever so slowly make its supposedly inevitable way into the commercial market, should that ever happen. Or, you could try Sailfish -- which is ready today and has been designed specifically to rival Android and iOS as a first-class general consumer mobile OS.

Honestly, I can't myself imagine that many folks are all that interested in an alternative to iOS or Android right now. Members of TMO don't seem to have much love for the current mobile OS leaders, but the two titans still seem extremely popular in the general market. But yeah, if there are any such folks out there, investing in Jolla should still be at the top of their list -- I believe it has a much better chance of becoming a viable alternative to the duopoly than anything else available right now...

minimos	2015-11-29 , 07:07
Posts: 646 \| Thanked: 1,124 times \| Joined on Jul 2010 @ Espoo, Finland	#2296

Considering that some of the guys that are listed as Jolla owners have deep ties to the major mobile market, while certainly investors generally look to get some direct profit from their action, I think it is also possible that some of them are happy to fund Jolla as a playfield to experiment 'something different' without the risk of affecting the reputation of the company they have a major involvement in.

	Feathers McGraw	2015-11-29 , 09:48
	Posts: 654 \| Thanked: 2,368 times \| Joined on Jul 2014 @ UK	#2297

Copernicus, I think you hit the nail on the head there. Sooner or later, something is bound to happen that will put people off Android/iOS, but for now most people seem pretty happy.

Originally Posted by Copernicus

You could wait (and wait (and wait)) for Ubuntu Touch to slowly, ever so slowly make its supposedly inevitable way into the commercial market, should that ever happen. Or, you could try Sailfish -- which is ready today and has been designed specifically to rival Android and iOS as a first-class general consumer mobile OS.

I've never tried Ubuntu phone, but I'm curious about it. When Jolla's problems surfaced, my first thought was that maybe UP is the new best chance for a mobile Linux OS that can improve slowly but in a sustainable way (because Canonical has other income to subsidise it).

I'm surprised there hasn't been more chat on this forum about it. Is that because people have tried it and don't like it, or because they never had a reason to try it because Sailfish is much more of an obvious successor to Harmattan etc?

Can someone who has used both give a list of things they like and things they don't compared to Sailfish?

	pichlo	2015-11-29 , 10:56
	Posts: 6,450 \| Thanked: 20,983 times \| Joined on Sep 2012 @ UK	#2298

Originally Posted by Feathers McGraw

I'm surprised there hasn't been more chat on this forum about it. Is that because people have tried it and don't like it, or because they never had a reason to try it because Sailfish is much more of an obvious successor to Harmattan etc?

Au contraire, mon ami. There has been a lot of talk about Ubuntu Touch on TMO. See https://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=55. Meizu MX4 and BQ Aquaris E4.5 have been mentioned specifically.

I have not tried it myself although perhaps I should. The feeling I get from other members' posts is generally negative, although most arguments feel very vague. It sounds almost like the posters feel obliged to find Sailfish superior to anything else at any cost.

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	kinggo	2015-11-29 , 11:09
	Posts: 943 \| Thanked: 3,228 times \| Joined on Jun 2010 @ Zagreb	#2299

slightly off here but........
Since tablets seems MIA, what about the phone? It is still listed. And for that 200€ seems like a good deal for avoiding android. But why 10-20 days for dispatch?

att	2015-11-29 , 11:55
Posts: 388 \| Thanked: 1,340 times \| Joined on Nov 2007 @ Finland	#2300

Originally Posted by kinggo

slightly off here but........
Since tablets seems MIA, what about the phone? It is still listed. And for that 200€ seems like a good deal for avoiding android. But why 10-20 days for dispatch?

Some possible reasons

Current postal strike and support strikes (affecting also DHL & co) at Finland
Less people working at Jolla so prioritization of works
Workers left are learning new tasks
Suppliers and partners requiring prepayments from Jolla
Waiting for the funding situation to clear up
Takes longer to collect enough orders to be eligible for shipment volume discounts

Edit: Added the last entry.

Last edited by att; 2015-11-29 at 12:17.