SIO2 Interactive spamming votes to get his/her applications to Extras - Page 24 - maemo.org

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	Texrat	2010-02-19 , 16:18
	Posts: 11,700 \| Thanked: 10,045 times \| Joined on Jun 2006 @ North Texas, USA	#231

The details that X-Fade added (developer stats) goes a long way toward improving visibility. We'll never have a perfectly foolproof app QA "firewall" but in this sort of process identifying people circumventing process and then doing as ewan suggests above is IMO good enough.

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Matan	2010-02-19 , 16:41
Posts: 1,224 \| Thanked: 1,763 times \| Joined on Jul 2007	#232

Originally Posted by CrashandDie

Seeing the thread this is going, I'm afraid you're right -- to a point. I'm going to pay close attention to this thread and lock it should people keep bashing SIO2 Interactive (quite a mouthful for a username).

A few things:

- From a moderator perspective, the whole thread will not be deleted, it would not be a mature thing to do. SIO2 has shown an issue with our process, and we need to keep a record of this problem.

- From a community perspective: Looking at how easy it was to do this, I'm surprised it didn't happen earlier. Actually, I think the next problem we'll face is having editors asking for votes in exchange of freebies -- that'll be quite different to handle. I think it's a shame that we couldn't both (SIO2 and the Community) shuffle our feet and apologise for having allowed this to happen -- just look at SIO2's threads to see how happy he's made some people; has all of that gone just because he plugged holes we should never have allowed to exist in the first place? We need to use these opportunities to further ourselves rather than spend so much time bashing a single individual. Over two hundred posts in this thread alone!

So I'll repeat myself, in case I wasn't very clear the first time:

Use this thread to discuss how this issue occurred, how we should handle it in the future (because we will have to go there again), summarise what we can learn from it. Use it for bashing again and it will be locked.

Please lock this thread. If criticising such slimey behaviour is forbidden, then there is no sense in having this thread at all.

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	Texrat	2010-02-19 , 16:44
	Posts: 11,700 \| Thanked: 10,045 times \| Joined on Jun 2006 @ North Texas, USA	#233

Originally Posted by Matan

Please lock this thread. If criticising such slimey behaviour is forbidden, then there is no sense in having this thread at all.

criticizing != bashing

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fatalsaint	2010-02-19 , 16:53
Posts: 3,428 \| Thanked: 2,856 times \| Joined on Jul 2008	#234

Originally Posted by Texrat

criticizing != bashing

This.

I absolutely abhor what was done just to get apps into Extras a little faster. That's simply inexcusable.

But here we are.. 24 pages later.. seriously. Everything that's possible to say has been said regarding SIO2 as an individual.

The focus should be moving forward... and probably defining an official document outlying specifically what the "punishment" should be if someone breaks the rules again.

I disagree with you on one thing Tex: The cure was not worse than the disease.

The actual cure was:
1) removal of apps
2) temporary removal of developers upload rights.

This is a perfectly acceptable response to the crime. The whole "public apology" thing was a bit much - and feels more like a measuring of e-peens than punishment - however, a requirement to contact an Extras mod so they could explain to the Dev why their app and privs were Temporarily pulled and a request that they promise not to do again (for first offense), should have really been all that's necessary.

It is disturbing how many people seem to want to overlook that not only did someone "hack" the repo's (technically they exploited a bug, it's a hack.) but that they then said it was our fault they did it - is justifiable (It's your fault I stole your car-radio.. your door was unlocked!

). That does scare me, but again - this horse is so far down it looks like a dead Donkey at this point.

This whole thread was mostly unnecessary... The OP, upon realizing what happened, should have communicated via private channels so that the holes could be plugged. At the most... One of the Extras mods should have made an announcement thread that was immediately locked explaining that SIO2's apps were removed and why.

Nothing good comes from a public stoning. Ever.

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Bratag	2010-02-19 , 17:08
Posts: 2,014 \| Thanked: 1,581 times \| Joined on Sep 2009	#235

The whole QA process is a joke as it exists and relys completely on the whim of erratic users who may or may not test your app, it is entirely possible that an app could languish forever in devel through no fault of the app. I write software for a living and in no way does this QA process even remotely resemble even the most basic of those I have encountered

Any process run by the users with no higher court of appeal will always result in good apps being overlooked and apps of a lesser nature moving on purely because they got lucky.

I would also point out that there is absolutely nothing stopping me from getting 10 friends together and having them vote up any app. Where is your QA process there.

The devs mistake was not that he skipped the QA process, if it can even be called that, but that he used email addresses from the same place. If he had used 10 random email addr then all of you holier than thou preachy buggers would be no wiser and be quite happy in your "I am more pure" than you lives.

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	Texrat	2010-02-19 , 17:23
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I thought we were going to move past the provocation.

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fatalsaint	2010-02-19 , 17:48
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Originally Posted by Bratag

...

Maybe I missed it... but where was your recommendation for improvement?

That's what is needed.

There's a dedicated Testing Squad now whose purpose it is to specifically test apps to make sure that apps aren't forever left in limbo anymore. But, the Testing Squad is structured around the current process: If you believe this to be fundamentally flawed, fine - whats your alternative?

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	Texrat	2010-02-19 , 17:49
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Originally Posted by fatalsaint

I disagree with you on one thing Tex: The cure was not worse than the disease.

The actual cure was:
1) removal of apps
2) temporary removal of developers upload rights.

Not quite. The "cure" also incorporated the public stoning you decry.

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	ewan	2010-02-19 , 17:50
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Originally Posted by fatalsaint

The whole "public apology" thing was a bit much - and feels more like a measuring of e-peens than punishment - however, a requirement to contact an Extras mod so they could explain to the Dev why their app and privs were Temporarily pulled and a request that they promise not to do again (for first offense), should have really been all that's necessary.

I think what I, at least would have wanted to see is not so much a public apology as any kind of punishment, but simply a credible expression that the developer realised that whet they'd done was wrong, and an acceptance that it should not be done again. Without that I'd find it very difficult to trust that they wouldn't do the same, or similar, again were it to appear to be in their interests.